Asked by Lord Harris of Haringey To ask Her Majesty’s Government
what assessment they have made of the sustainability of the current
level of funding available for police forces in England and Wales.
The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams of Trafford)
(Con) My Lords, the...Request free
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Asked by
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To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have
made of the sustainability of the current level of
funding available for police forces in England and Wales.
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My Lords, the Government have protected police spending
since 2015. We know that crime is changing, and Ministers
are sensitive to current pressures on policing. The
Policing Minister is therefore undertaking a programme of
engagement with the police to understand the impact of
changing demands.
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That is a very complacent response. Does the noble
Baroness understand the concerns expressed by Chief
Superintendent Gavin Thomas, president of the Police
Superintendents’ Association, when he says that a
“perfect storm” is developing in policing, with staff
cuts, new threats and a rise in crime, and with half of
senior officers showing signs of mental ill-health as a
result? Does she recognise the concerns expressed by her
Conservative colleagues who are police and crime
commissioners? For example, the PCC in Avon and Somerset
says that that force is pushed to its limits, and in
Bedfordshire the position is considered to be
unsustainable. When crime figures were falling, the Prime
Minister’s view was that police numbers could fall too.
Does the Minister now accept that the logic of that view
is that, now that the latest figures show a 13% increase
in crime, the Chancellor should make substantial
resources available for policing in next month’s Budget?
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My Lords, first, there has been an overall fall in total
crime. PCC funding, which the noble Lord mentioned, is
now over £11 billion—up £150 million from 2015-16. Total
police funding, excluding counterterrorism funding, is up
to £8.5 billion from £8.4 billion. Therefore, as I said
in my first Answer, resourcing has remained flat. Of
course, if the police maximise the precept, most police
forces will have a slight increase in funding.
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My Lords, does the Minister think that it is a sensible
policy to agree and announce an increase in police pay
per officer but to have no increase in the overall
budget? That does not seem to me to provide a sustainable
funding programme.
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My Lords, for the past couple of years, I have listened
to calls for increases in police pay, particularly in
light of the attacks in Westminster and across the
country and the pressures on police staff. The increase
in police pay is counterbalanced by the huge amount of
reserves that the police hold—some £1.7 billion at the
moment. The police do have a decision to make about where
they deploy their resources and how they use reserves.
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My Lords, the HMIC report published this week found that
police forces are having difficulty finding the resources
to investigate human trafficking and modern slavery. That
goes against everything that was promised in this House
during the passage of the Modern Slavery Act. Will the
Government commit to providing the additional funding,
specifically to allow police forces thoroughly to
investigate these appalling crimes, which are often
highly complex and very resource intensive?
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The noble Baroness is absolutely right that these sorts
of crimes are incredibly complex. I pay tribute to the
police for dealing with them, because the Modern Slavery
Act 2015 is now having a real impact. We are seeing the
first convictions for the new offences prosecuted under
that Act, and at least 56 slavery and trafficking
prevention and risk orders to restrict offender activity
are now in place.
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My Lords, in view of the fact that funding is very
important so far as the police are concerned, many people
are becoming increasingly concerned about the way in
which the resources are spent. Apart from detection of
crime and the work at the sharp end of that matter,
police are often involved in community projects of one
kind or another where many people feel they should not be
involved, or at least not to the extent that they now
appear to be. Can we please have a further emphasis on
the need to concentrate those important resources on the
detection of crime?
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My Lords, the police will deploy their resources in the
area that they think is most important in their
communities. The police have always been operationally
independent of government and it is vital that that
continues. They are best placed to make those decisions.
We understand the pressures that the police and PCCs are
under. That is why my right honourable friend in the
other place, the Minister for Policing, is engaging with
local forces to make sure that they have the resources
and the capability that they need.
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Will the Minister confirm not only the operational
independence of the police but the fact that community
relationships with the police are an essential component
of crime detection?
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I totally agree with the noble Lord—clearly, he has vast
experience in this area. That trust between police and
local communities is absolutely vital.
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My Lords, the Minister will recall that in the police
evidence to the Victoria Climbié inquiry, reference was
made to the fact that, once pressure is on the police,
there is a tendency to reduce the resources in the police
child protection teams. Can the Minister assure the House
that child protection and the well-being of children, and
in particular good partnership with children’s services
and local government, will remain a priority for the
Government?
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Well, it is certainly a priority for the noble Lord, and
it is too for the Government. That work in partnership is
incredibly important. In funding for this area, because
we know that it remains a great concern, we have provided
more than £20 million over three years to help combat the
online grooming of children for sexual exploitation, and
we have awarded £1.9 million to the College of Policing
to transform the police’s approach to vulnerability.
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