Asked by Lord Campbell-Savours To ask Her Majesty’s
Government what consideration has been given to the introduction of
ID cards as a contribution to the maintenance of security in the
United Kingdom. The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness
Williams of Trafford) (Con) My Lords, Her Majesty’s
Government have considered the introduction of ID...Request free trial
Asked by
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To ask Her Majesty’s Government what consideration has been
given to the introduction of ID cards as a contribution to
the maintenance of security in the United Kingdom.
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The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams of
Trafford) (Con)
My Lords, Her Majesty’s Government have considered the
introduction of ID cards and have concluded that they would
not contribute significantly to the maintenance of security
in the United Kingdom.
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(Lab)
My Lords, the Government’s policy paper on EU citizens who
wish to live in the United Kingdom proposes that up to 3.2
million EU citizens would need to apply for settled status
supported by an identity document which could include
personal data, a photograph and, according to paragraph 35
of the paper, possibly even nationally recorded biometric
data; in other words, a national identity card-like
document that will open the door to entitlements. With
national security in mind, why not use the introduction of
these identity documents as the test bed for a national
roll-out of identity cards for us all throughout the
country?
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I have to pay tribute to the noble Lord’s tenacity on this
point. He is absolutely right to observe that, as we leave
the EU, we are entering new territory. We said in the EU
citizens policy paper that all EU citizens and their
families in the UK, regardless of when they arrived, will,
on our exit from the EU, need to obtain an immigration
status in EU law. They will need to apply to the Home
Office for permission to stay, which will be evidenced
through a residence document. The form it will take may be
digital in the longer term, but when introduced it might be
similar in format to the current biometric residence
permit.
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(CB)
My Lords, does the Minister remember the murder of
Detective Constable Stephen Oake in Manchester by a man
with the name, apparently, of Kamel Bourgass, who was also
convicted of the ricin plot in 2003? Does she further
recall that one of the things we know about Kamel Bourgass
is that that is not his real name and we have no idea of
his identity? The same is true of one of the people
convicted of the attempted bombings on 21 July 2007. Why we
are resisting something that, given the terrorist situation
we are currently in, must be an advantage to the country?
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I hope that the noble Lord will agree that while many
European countries have identity cards, there is no
evidence that they offer any greater protection than we
have in this country. I think he will also appreciate that
better security, better use of intelligence and better
cybersecurity are very efficient uses of resource in
looking at this problem.
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(Con)
My Lords, I hope my noble friend the Minister recognises that
knowing who people are is a pretty crucial ingredient of
national security. I am not particularly keen on identity
cards because a competent forger nowadays can forge any
document, including biometrics. What is needed is a national
number with biometrics, held nationally, which everyone has
instead of the plethora of numbers, most of which mean
nothing at all. Will the Minister at least study the need for
and the possibility of introducing a national identity
number?
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My Lords, we have many numbers that help in assuring our
identity. I am not sure that this would add to the mix. I am
certainly happy to look at this, but I do not think there is
any evidence that a national identity number would improve
security in this country. I have already outlined to the
noble Lord, Lord Blair, how this country is helping to make
us safer.
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(LD)
My Lords, under the coalition Government we found ourselves
trying to check who was on the electoral register against the
national insurance number and discovering that the Government
do not have, across their different departments, clear rules
on which identity numbers we have. I have different numbers
for my passport, the NHS and national insurance. As we move
toward more of a database society, is there not an argument
for considering how, in the relationship between the citizen
and the state, we at least move toward common rules across
departments for recording who we are, where we are, where we
live and so forth?
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My Lords, the Government’s Verify system helps in regard to
identity. We are certainly looking, for when the UK leaves
the EU, at just what that residency document will look like.
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(Lab)
My Lords, as well as the very persuasive arguments by my
noble friend , all the
work we have done in the cyber world has shown that the best
way of stopping identity theft is for people to have a card
with biometric data that they can use when accessing things
such as the Government Gateway. More work is being done
digitally online. This will become something that people will
almost certainly have to have. A passport does not really
cover that. When you add all the other benefits—for example,
recognising who people really are–surely it is overwhelmingly
desirable to go down this route.
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The noble Lord mentions the Verify system, which is a very
good way for people to prove who they are online. There are a
mixture of different ways in which people can prove identity
for different purposes, and the noble Lord is right to raise
that.
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(UUP)
My Lords, in elections in Northern Ireland, voters must
provide an identification document, such as a driving
licence, passport or social security card, to be able to
vote. This is acceptable to the electors in Northern Ireland
and causes no objections whatever. Surely the same could
apply to the ID card throughout the UK in this current
security situation.
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My Lords, the Government have announced plans to pilot the
use of various forms of documentation as proof of identity
when voting in specified local authority areas during the
local government elections in 2018. There are no plans,
however, to establish a specific electoral identity card
pilot at this stage.
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