Grenfell Tower Next Share this debate 22 June 2017
Volume 626 9.35 am The Prime Minister (Mrs Theresa May)
Share this contribution With...Request free trial
22 June 2017
Volume 626
-
With permission, Mr Speaker, I will make a
statement on the disaster at Grenfell Tower. I
apologise to the Leader of the Opposition for the
short notice he has had of this statement. In the
hour before making it, I received an important
update, which I felt was essential to bring to the
attention of the House this morning.
What happened in the early hours of last Wednesday
morning was one of the most unimaginable tragedies
that our country has seen in many years. As of this
morning, 79 people have been confirmed dead or
listed as missing presumed dead, and with work
still ongoing to recover the bodies, sadly the
death toll may rise further.
We already know that many children are among the
dead and that in some cases whole families
perished. Those who survived have lost loved ones,
friends, neighbours and, in many cases, everything
they own. It should never have happened. In a few
moments, I shall say how we will discover why it
did, but, as I said yesterday, that initial failure
was then compounded by the fact that the support on
the ground in the initial hours was not good
enough. As Prime Minister, I have apologised for
that second failure and taken responsibility for
doing what we can to put it right.
On my first visit to north Kensington, I met the
emergency services. These extraordinary men and
women put their lives on the line in an effort to
save others, and my first responsibility was to
check that they had all the resources they needed.
I then visited Chelsea and Westminster hospital,
where I met some of the most seriously injured
survivors—it was from that experience that I
decided to have an emergency fund. I also met a
group of residents in Kensington whom I then
invited to Downing Street last weekend. I returned
to Kensington again last night to hear directly
from them about the progress that we are making.
What became clear very quickly was that the Royal
Borough of Kensington and Chelsea could not cope,
and it is right that the chief executive officer
has now resigned. It is also why I set up the
Grenfell Tower recovery taskforce, which I have
been chairing personally.
This is about not just the steps that we take in
the first few weeks, but a lasting commitment that
we make to supporting the affected families, long
after the television cameras have gone. Let me set
out in detail the steps that we are taking to
support the victims and to rehouse those who have
lost their homes.
On Friday morning, the Government established a
central command centre under the leadership of John
Barradell, the chief executive of the City of
London and former lead for London local government
on resilience, and Eleanor Kelly, chief executive
of the London borough of Southwark. On behalf of
the whole House I thank John and his team for all
the work that they are doing.
I also pay tribute to the London boroughs for their
fantastic response, including a number of chief
executives who are currently working at the command
centre, as well as the Mayor of London and leading
figures from a number of councils from outside
London. I thank the army of volunteers who stepped
in to provide shelter, sustenance, comfort and
practical support. I also thank the
Secretary of State for Communities and Local
Government and the Ministers for Housing and
Planning, for London and for Policing and the Fire
Service for the work that they have been doing.
Currently, there are around 600 people working on
the site and in the immediate area to provide
support to the victims. The Westway sports centre
has been transformed into an emergency community
hub, staffed by 40 officials from six Government
Departments. Those officials are making sure that
people have essential documents such as driving
licences and passports, which are fundamental to
them carrying on with their lives. They have also
been joined by experts from organisations such as
Transport for London, Citizens Advice and the Red
Cross, NHS mental health staff, nurses, care
managers, and a GP. Anyone affected by the blaze
can walk in and access the support they need, and
so far there have been almost 700 visits to the
centre.
The centre’s on-the-ground work is supplemented by
the victim support unit, whose emergency helpline
provides a single point of contact for victims who
need to deal with multiple Government services in
the wake of the disaster. Each family whose home
was destroyed is receiving a £5,000 down payment
from the emergency fund so they can buy food,
clothes and other essentials, and outreach workers
are seeking to make sure everyone gets the money
they are entitled to. We are also paying all
additional adults over 16 in these households £500
in cash. Other cash payments are being paid out by
the council on a discretionary basis, for example
to those whose home has been severely impacted but
not permanently destroyed. As of midday on
Wednesday we had made payments of more than
£700,000.
It is absolutely essential that people understand
they can keep the money they receive; these grants
are not loans and they will not be expected to
repay a single penny. Neither are they waiving any
legal rights as a result of accepting this
financial help. The payments will be disregarded
for means-tested welfare payments, so no one in
receipt of benefits will see their benefits cut if
they accept emergency support. I would like to
reassure people that we will not use this tragic
incident as a reason to carry out immigration
checks on those involved or on those providing
vital information to identify victims or those
assisting with the criminal investigation. We will
make sure that all victims, irrespective of their
immigration status, can access the services they
need, including healthcare and accommodation.
In terms of local schools, Kensington Aldridge
Academy, the school right next door to the tower,
remains closed. However, all its pupils have
already been accommodated at other schools in the
area. The Department for Education is working with
Ofqual to ensure that children who are sitting
their GCSEs receive an appropriate exam
dispensation and specialist counselling has been
offered to local schoolchildren and also to
teachers affected by the fire.
Turning to re-housing, 151 homes were destroyed in
the fire, most in the tower itself but also several
in the immediate vicinity. All those who have lost
their homes have been offered emergency hotel
accommodation, and all will be offered rehousing
within three weeks. Already, 164 suitable
properties have been identified and they are being
checked and made ready for people to move into. In
the longer term, everyone whose home was
destroyed will be guaranteed a new home on the same
terms as the one they lost. Sixty-eight of those
will be in a brand-new low-rise block that has just
been built by Berkeley Homes. The developer has
generously offered to turn over the entire block at
cost price. Contractors are on site now, working
24/7 to speed up fit-out so that the first families
can move in this summer.
Within the wider cordon area, many more homes were
damaged by smoke or water or have lost gas, heating
and hot water. Emergency hotel accommodation is
available for anyone who does not want to remain in
a damaged property and more than 100 hotel rooms
have already been provided. We are also putting in
place practical support to help accelerate
necessary repairs and yesterday drew on expertise
from the Army to assist with this.
Some survivors have said that they want to leave
the local area, and we will of course support that
and help them find a home elsewhere. But I want to
be absolutely clear: nobody is being forced to move
somewhere they do not want to go, and if any hon.
Member thinks they know of anyone being treated in
this way they should contact my office in Downing
Street with the details.
As the scale of the tragedy became clear we quickly
decided there had to be an independent public
inquiry. As I said to the House yesterday, it will
be chaired by a judge to get to the truth about
what happened and who was responsible, and to
provide justice for the victims and their families
who suffered so terribly. All those with an
interest—including survivors and victims’
families—will be consulted about the terms of
reference, and we will pay for legal representation
for those affected. Listening to survivors last
night, it also became clear that they want support
to come together as a group to have their voices
heard, and the Government will play our part in
helping them to do so.
For too long residents have been overlooked and
ignored. We will ensure that they are involved in
every step of this process. No stone will be left
unturned in this inquiry, and there will be nowhere
for any guilty parties to hide. I am clear that we
cannot wait for ages to learn the immediate
lessons, so I expect that the chair of the inquiry
will want to produce an interim report as early as
possible.
I know that many others living in tall residential
buildings will have concerns about their safety
after what happened at Grenfell. All social
landlords have been instructed to carry out
additional fire safety checks on tower blocks, and
to ensure that the appropriate safety and response
measures are in place. This is being done in
co-operation with local fire and rescue services.
We have also taken steps to make private landlords
aware and have made our checking facilities
available to them for free.
The House should of course be careful when it comes
to speculating about what caused the fire, but the
Government have arranged to test cladding in all
relevant tower blocks as a precaution. Shortly
before I came to the Chamber, I was informed that a
number of these tests have come back as
combustible. The relevant local authorities and
local fire services have been informed. As I speak,
they are taking all possible steps to ensure that
buildings are safe and to inform affected
residents. Immediately after this statement, the
Department for Communities and Local Government
will contact any MPs whose constituents are
affected, and the Communities Secretary will
provide a further update later today.
We can test more than 100 buildings a day, and the
results come within hours. I urge any landlord who
owns a building of this kind to send samples for
testing as soon as possible. Any results will be
communicated immediately to local authorities and
local fire services. Landlords have a legal
obligation to provide safe buildings. Where they
cannot do that, we expect alternative accommodation
to be provided. We cannot and will not ask people
to live in unsafe homes.
It is clear that the Royal Borough of Kensington
and Chelsea was not able to cope with the scale of
the tragedy, so we will develop a new strategy for
resilience in major disasters, which could include
a new civil disaster response taskforce that can
help at times of emergency.
Finally, we must learn some of the lessons of this
and previous disasters where bereaved families have
not had the support they need, so we will introduce
an independent public advocate for public
disasters—a strong independent voice for victims,
acting on behalf of bereaved families and
supporting them at public inquests and inquiries.
In the past week, a lot of remarkable people have
gone above and beyond to help deal with the fire
and its aftermath. First and foremost, of course,
are the incredible men and women of the emergency
services who did so much to save so many lives. I
cannot imagine the kind of bravery it takes to run
into a burning building and head upstairs when any
normal person would be heading for the exits. We
have also seen sterling work from people across the
public sector including teachers, nurses, staff
from various local authorities and civil servants,
who are doing all they can to help. We have seen
incredible acts of generosity from private
businesses, and we have seen the people of this
great city and this great country stepping up to
help in any way they can: donating money, clothes,
toys and food, volunteering their time and so much
more.
Above all, I pay tribute to the people of
Kensington. They have opened their hearts and homes
to people affected by the fire, coming together and
showing what a real community looks like. The
selfless actions of local people and the courage
and resilience of the survivors should give us all
pause for thought.
Right now, our focus is on supporting the victims,
finding homes for those made homeless and making
sure that the country’s housing stock is as safe as
possible. But as we move forwards, we must also
recognise that for too long in our country, under
Governments of both colours, we simply have not
given enough attention to social housing, and that
this is actually a symptom of an even more
fundamental issue.
It should not take a disaster of this kind for us
to remember that there are people in Britain today
living lives that are so far removed from those
that many here in Westminster enjoy. In this
tower—just a few miles from the Houses of
Parliament and in the heart of our great
city—people live a fundamentally different life, do
not feel the state works for them and are therefore
mistrustful of it. So, long after the TV cameras
have gone and the world has moved on, let the
legacy of this awful tragedy be that we resolve
never to forget these people and instead to gear
our policies and our thinking towards making their
lives better and bringing them into the political
process. It is our job as a Government and as a
Parliament to show that we are listening
and that we will stand up for them. That
is what I am determined we should do. I commend
this statement to the House.
-
My understanding is that the fire service and BRE,
which was on the scene early to look at that issue,
have been identifying the cause of the fire and any
contributory factors. They are testing the cladding
on the building, and they expect to make the
results public in, I think, the next 48 hours.
-
Will my right hon. Friend confirm whether the
firefighters who attended this harrowing scene, and
their families, will get the psychological support
that they may well need in the months and years
ahead? Will she commit to report back to the House
on how that will be set up for them?
-
Yes. My hon. Friend raises an important issue,
which the Leader of the Opposition also touched on.
I can confirm that we are ensuring that that
support and counselling will be available. There
will be further updates to the House on the
response to the Grenfell Tower fire, and that will
be an issue to be included.
-
Further to the question of my right hon. Friend the
Member for Leeds Central (Hilary Benn), the
cladding on the tower is a standard product that is
available for sale. I do not understand why the
Prime Minister cannot tell us whether that product
is compliant with the building regulations for a
tower that is this high. Why can she not tell us
the answer? Will she also confirm that the Building
Regulations Advisory Committee, which should be
looking at part B of the building regulations on
fire safety, has not yet actually met to look at
how the regulations could be improved?
-
I will add to the answer I gave to the right hon.
Member for Leeds Central (Hilary Benn), and I ask
hon. Members to remember that a criminal
investigation is taking place in relation to this
matter. The testing of the cladding and of the
materials used is being undertaken, and a statement
will be made by the police and the fire service
within the next 48 hours.
-
The London Resilience Forum has a number of
multi-agency plans for things such as mass shelter,
mass fatalities and mass casualties. Can we confirm
whether those plans were fully implemented? Can we
also ensure that what lessons we learn from the
inquiry process are fed back into resilience
forums, both in London and around the country, to
ensure that the lessons are promptly implemented?
-
I thank my hon. Friend for his question. He
obviously has experience from when he was on the
London Assembly and took a particular interest in
the London Fire Brigade and fire service matters. I
can indeed confirm that we have already looked at
the whole question of resilience forums around the
country. We will ensure that any lessons learned
from the Grenfell Tower fire are fed into those
resilience teams and forums, but we also need to
ensure that resilience forums around the country
are as resilient as they need to be in providing
support should any disaster happen. We have seen
this issue in relation to
other disasters, such as flooding. We
need to ensure that resilience forums are operating
as they should at every local level.
-
Will the Prime Minister please confirm when the
judge will be appointed? Following the comments
from my Opposition colleagues, I would be grateful
for some clarification on whether she is advising
us that she does not know whether the cladding was
compliant with building regulations. The question
that she has been asked is about whether the
material was compliant; is she advising us that it
needs to be tested before she can give us a reply?
-
As I have said, the material is being tested. The
results of those tests will
be—[Interruption.] The information
that the fire service and police are able to give
publicly they will give; this is part of the
criminal
investigation. [Interruption.] It
is. Hon. Members may shake their heads, but let me
make this point: they want to ensure that if there
are criminal charges to be brought, those charges
are indeed brought, and we must therefore ensure
that we give the police the opportunity to do the
job that they undertake and that nothing we do
prejudices that.
-
I welcome the Prime Minister’s commitment to the
publication of an early interim report. After the
Croydon tram crash last year, the Rail Accident
Investigation Branch published two interim reports
within three months, which identified the immediate
cause of the crash and so action could be taken.
Will she assure the House that a similar approach
will be taken with this interim report?
-
I thank my hon. Friend for that. It was very
important that interim reports came out quickly in
relation to the Croydon inquiry. I can confirm that
I fully expect the judge to bring out an interim
report. May I say to the hon. Member for
Peterborough (Fiona Onasanya) that I am sorry I did
not answer her first question about the judge? I
would expect within the next few days to be able to
announce the name of the judge. We very much want
to ensure that when the judge takes charge of this
inquiry people feel, as I said earlier, that they
can have full confidence in it, and so we are
taking steps to ensure that that is the case.
-
Sympathies are not enough but, on behalf of my
party, I offer them to all who have suffered. I
also express my gratitude to emergency services
officers, who showed the dedication of heroes in
unimaginable conditions. Criminal investigations
are only to be expected, but penalising individuals
is partial retribution; those in government should
search their souls. Will the Prime Minister commit
to ensure that future policy, legislation and
resources mean a disaster of this magnitude can
never happen again in a 21st century, first world
country?
-
First, may I congratulate the hon. Lady on her
appointment as leader of the Plaid Cymru Members in
this House? I assure her that we are doing
everything we can, and, obviously, the inquiry will
play an important part, through its identification
of action that needs to be taken, in ensuring that
a disaster such as this can never happen again.
-
The families of the victims are entitled to the
truth—not speculation or conjecture, but the truth,
based on evidence—so my right hon. Friend was
absolutely right to set up the public inquiry, but
can we ensure that an early date is agreed for
publication of an interim report? In this case,
perhaps more than any other, justice delayed is
justice denied.
-
I would hope and expect that the judge, when
appointed—obviously, that individual will be
independent—will indicate publicly when they expect
to be able to publish an interim report, so that
people can have that confidence.
-
Will the Prime Minister confirm that the 68 flats
in the Berkeley Homes Kensington Row development
that are to be allocated to the victims of the
Grenfell Tower fire are already designated as
social housing? What we need in places such as west
London, where for many people social housing is the
only affordable housing, is large investment in new
affordable housing, not rearranging the same pot.
Opposition Members will remain very sceptical about
her conversion to social housing until she starts
providing it, not just talking about it.
-
The important point about the Berkeley Homes
development is that it is being ring-fenced for
people who have been affected by the Grenfell Tower
fire. That is the significance of this; it will be
available purely for the people who have lost their
home and been displaced as a result of this
tragedy.
-
We have heard that the residents of Grenfell Tower
had spoken out about their fears but not been
listened to, like so many of our constituents, on
whose behalf we, as MPs, frequently write to
organisations asking for them to be given a fair
hearing, despite the dedication of many thousands
of staff. I ask my right hon. Friend to look at the
management systems and culture in organisations
that serve the public, to work out what needs to
change to ensure that every citizen of this
country, whoever and wherever they are, are not
just heard but listened to.
-
My hon. Friend raises an important matter. We must
ensure that organisations that have a
responsibility to the public do indeed listen to
the public. With regard to any future disasters
that should take place, I am considering the
concept of an independent public advocate—somebody
who can ensure that answers are given. They should
ensure that people get not just the support that
they need, but the answers that they need.
-
Obviously, many have paid tribute to the fire and
rescue workers who put their lives in danger and
who may still be feeling the trauma from that. As a
surgeon of more than 30 years, I wish to highlight
the fact that NHS staff will also be traumatised,
because there is nothing more horrific than dealing
with the victims of burns. In the autumn statement
of 2015, the former Chancellor identified £800
million to be taken from the new housing bonus
scheme to make up the shortfall in social care.
Will the current Chancellor now reverse that?
-
The Communities Secretary has demanded that the
chief executive of Kensington and Chelsea Council
resigns. Should Councillor Paget-Brown resign?
-
That matter will be considered by the appropriate
group on Kensington and Chelsea Council.
-
If Bristol City Council comes to the conclusion
that essential work is needed on its tower blocks,
will the Government fund it? If so, how soon will
we get the money?
-
If the decision is made, in conjunction with the
fire and rescue service, that work needs to be done
on those tower blocks, there will be a discussion
between the authority and the Department for
Communities and Local Government about how that
work can be undertaken and the provision of
resources for that work.
-
I know that the Prime Minister believes that
politicians should be accountable for their actions
or their inactions. On that basis, has she told the
leader of Kensington and Chelsea Council that he
should go because of the appalling way in which
this tragedy has been handled?
-
I have had a conversation with the leader of
Kensington and Chelsea Council. I told him that he
needed to ensure that residents, victims and
survivors of this terrible disaster were being
given the help and support they need. We have now
added more help and support to ensure that that is
happening on the ground.
-
In paying more attention to social housing, will
the Prime Minister pledge to review the
right-to-buy discount policy, the implicit message
from Government that renting is not aspirational
enough and how the one-for-one replacement process
is managed, and allow greater building of council
houses?
-
If the hon. Gentleman looks at the housing White
Paper produced by the Government earlier this year,
he will see that we clearly expect there to be a
diversity of ways in which people will be in their
homes. Some wish to own their homes and some wish
to rent. Some wish to have rent-to-buy schemes and
others wish to have shared ownership schemes. I
want there to be diversity to suit people and their
circumstances.
-
Both the fire stations in my constituency are
closing as a direct result of Government cuts, so
will the Government now take action and increase
funding to Merseyside fire and rescue service?
-
Fire services across the country are ensuring that
they have the appropriate response to the fires
with which they are dealing. Importantly, urban
search and rescue as well as the London Fire
Brigade were available for the Grenfell Tower fire.
The resources were there and they were able to take
the action that they took.
-
Short sentences—Matt Western.
-
I have heard the word “encouragement” used a lot
today. In my experience, that word is not
necessarily useful when we are talking about a
tragedy of this magnitude. Markets do not work with
encouragement; they work with regulation. There has
been an explosion in the number of student
properties built in the private sector in recent
years. I suggest that it is incumbent on the
Government to make it mandatory for not just the
public sector, but the private sector to use their
facilities and test all these properties.
-
There are fire safety and building regulations in
place. Landlords have a responsibility for ensuring
the safety of their properties. We are ensuring
that facilities are available to them free of
charge. I say, once again, that local authorities
and housing associations are sending in samples. I
encourage them and others to do so. As I said, the
checking facilities are also available to the
devolved Administrations.
-
Will the Prime Minister assure me that she will
work with the devolved Administrations on the
lesson-learning process, including with the Welsh
Government, who have announced an expert group to
do just that in recent days?
-
We are already talking to the devolved
Administrations about the lessons and anything that
is coming out so far, and we will continue to do
so.
-
It has already become apparent that landlords do
not always know who occupies their properties, and
the vulnerabilities of certain tenants. Will the
Prime Minister ensure that we investigate
opportunities for data sharing between, for
example, local authorities, social services
departments, schools and registered social
landlords?
-
The hon. Lady raises an interesting issue. At the
heart of this is ensuring that the service given to
people interacting with various Government
Departments is focused on and identifies their
particular needs. I will consider the issue of data
sharing.
-
Cuts have consequences. According to Home Office
figures, the number of home fire safety checks has
fallen by 25% since 2010. Will the Prime Minister
now give the service the funding it needs to carry
out 100% of the checks required?
-
The fire and rescue service obviously does conduct
checks. It does that in relation to residential
properties of these sorts of tower blocks owned by
local authorities and housing associations. It does
so in conjunction with those landlords, and some of
those checks will be conducted by landlords
themselves.
-
Will the Prime Minister meet urgently the fire and
rescue service to discuss the advice given to
residents of tower blocks as, sadly, it would seem
that the advice given to the residents of Grenfell
Tower to stay in their flats may have been erroneous?
-
The fire and rescue service has representation at the
meetings that I have been chairing in relation to the
response to Grenfell Tower. The issue of the advice
that has been given to residents has been raised with
it. Obviously this matter will need reflection and
consideration, and I would expect it also to be one
that the inquiry will look at.
-
May I ask that as part of the inquiry an assessment
is carried out of the capacity of the fire service to
respond to incidents such as this, particularly with
reference to crewing and high-reach appliances?
-
The fire service was able to respond in this
instance, but of course when the inquiry looks at
these issues I would expect that to be one that it
considers.
-
-
Mr Shannon—15 seconds maximum.
-
There are 32 high-rise tower blocks in Northern
Ireland where safety tests have been carried out.
When it comes to the lessons learned and the
suggestions and recommendations made, may I ask that
the Northern Ireland Assembly and the Northern
Ireland Housing Executive be made aware of those?
-
We will indeed do that. This allows me to say to the
hon. Gentleman that I hope that the Northern Ireland
Assembly and the Northern Ireland Executive will be
formed such that they are in a position for us to
give them that information.
-
I thank the Prime Minister very warmly for her time
this morning, and all colleagues for their spirited
co-operation on this very important and grave
occasion.
-
My Lords, with the leave of the House I
will now repeat a Statement made by my
right honourable friend the Prime Minister
in another place. The Statement is as
follows:
“With permission, Mr Speaker, I would like
to make a Statement on the disaster at
Grenfell Tower. I would like to start by
apologising to the Leader of the Opposition
for the short notice he has had of this
Statement. I received an important update
in the hour before making this Statement
which I felt was essential to bring to the
attention of the House this morning.
What happened in the early hours of last
Wednesday morning was one of the most
unimaginable tragedies our country has seen
in many years. As of this morning, 79
people have been confirmed dead or listed
as missing presumed dead, and with work
ongoing to recover the bodies, sadly the
death toll may rise further. We already
know that many children are among the dead
and that in some cases whole families
perished, and that those who survived have
lost loved ones, friends, neighbours and in
many cases everything they own.
It should never have happened. In a few
moments I will say how we are going to
discover why it did. But, as I said
yesterday, that initial failure was
compounded by the fact that the support on
the ground in the initial hours was not
good enough. As Prime Minister, I have
apologised for that second failure and
taken responsibility for doing what we can
to put it right.
On my first visit to north Kensington, I
met with the emergency services. These
extraordinary men and women put their lives
on the line in an effort to save others,
and my first responsibility was to check
that they had all the resources they
needed. I then visited Chelsea and
Westminster Hospital, where I met some of
the most seriously injured survivors—it was
from that experience that I
decided we had to have an emergency fund. I
also met a group of residents in Kensington
whom I then invited to Downing Street last
weekend. I returned to Kensington again
last night to hear directly from them about
the progress that we are making.
What became clear very quickly was that the
Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea
could not cope, and it is right that the
chief executive officer has now resigned.
It is also why I set up the Grenfell Tower
Recovery Taskforce, which I have been
chairing personally.
But this is not just about the steps we
take in the first few weeks; it is about a
lasting commitment that we are making to
supporting the families affected, long
after the television cameras have gone. So
let me set out in detail the steps that we
are taking to support the victims and
rehouse those who have lost their homes.
On Friday morning, the Government
established a central command centre under
the leadership of John Barradell, the chief
executive of the City of London and former
lead for London local government on
resilience, and Eleanor Kelly, the chief
executive of the London Borough of
Southwark. On behalf of the whole House, I
want to thank John and his team for all the
work they are doing.
I also want to pay tribute to the fantastic
response from London boroughs, including a
number of chief executives who are
currently working at the command centre, as
well as the Mayor of London and leading
figures from a number of councils from
outside London. I want to thank the army of
volunteers who stepped in to provide
shelter, sustenance, comfort and practical
support. And I want to thank my Communities
Secretary and the Ministers for Housing and
Planning, the Minister for London and the
Minister for Policing and the Fire Service
for the work they have been doing.
There are currently around 600 people on
the site and in the immediate area who are
working to provide support to the victims.
The Westway sports centre has been
transformed into an emergency community
hub, staffed by 40 officials from six
government departments. They are making
sure that people have essential documents
such as driving licences and passports that
are fundamental to carrying on with their
lives. They have also been joined by
experts from organisations such as
Transport for London, Citizens Advice and
the Red Cross, and by NHS mental health
staff, nurses, care managers and a GP.
Anyone affected by the blaze can walk in
and access the support they need, and so
far there have been almost 700 visits to
the centre. The centre’s on-the-ground work
is supplemented by the victim support unit,
whose emergency helpline provides a single
point of contact for victims who need to
deal with multiple government services in
the wake of the disaster.
Each family whose home was destroyed is
receiving a £5,000 down payment from the
emergency fund so that they can buy food,
clothes and other essentials, and outreach
workers are seeking to make sure that
everyone gets the money they are entitled
to. We are also paying all additional
adults over 16 in these households £500 in
cash. Other cash payments are being paid
out by the council on a discretionary
basis, for example to those
whose home has been severely impacted but
not permanently destroyed. As of midday on
Wednesday we had made payments of over
£700,000.
It is absolutely essential that people
understand that they can keep the money
they receive; these grants are not loans
and they will not be expected to repay a
single penny. Neither are they waiving any
legal rights as a result of accepting this
financial help. The payments will be
disregarded for means-tested welfare
payments, so no one in receipt of benefits
will see their benefits cut if they accept
emergency support.
I would also like to reassure people that
we will not use this tragic incident as a
reason to carry out immigration checks on
those involved or on those providing vital
information to identify victims or those
assisting with the criminal investigation.
We will make sure that all victims,
irrespective of their immigration status,
can access the services they need,
including healthcare and accommodation.
In terms of local schools, Kensington
Aldridge Academy, the school right next
door to the tower, remains closed. However,
all its pupils have already been
accommodated at other schools in the area.
The Department for Education is working
with Ofqual to ensure that children who are
sitting their GCSEs receive an appropriate
exam dispensation, and specialist
counselling has been offered to local
schoolchildren and also to teachers
affected by the fire.
Turning to rehousing, 151 homes were
destroyed in the fire—most in the tower
itself but also several in the immediate
vicinity. All those who have lost their
homes have been offered emergency hotel
accommodation, and all will be offered
rehousing within three weeks. Already, 164
suitable properties have been identified,
and they are being checked and made ready
for people to move into.
In the longer term, everyone whose home was
destroyed will be guaranteed a new home on
the same terms as the one they lost.
Sixty-eight of those will be in a brand-new
low-rise block that has just been built by
Berkeley Homes. The developer has
generously offered to turn over the entire
block at cost price. Contractors are on
site now, working 24/7 to speed up fit-out
so that the first families can move in this
summer.
Within the wider cordon area, many more
homes were damaged by smoke or water or
have lost gas, heating and hot water.
Emergency hotel accommodation is available
for anyone who does not want to remain in a
damaged property, and over 100 hotel rooms
have already been provided. We are also
putting in place practical support to help
accelerate necessary repairs and yesterday
drew on expertise from the Army to assist
with this.
Some survivors have said that they want to
leave the local area, and we will of course
support that and help them find a home
elsewhere. But I want to be absolutely
clear: nobody is being forced to move
somewhere they do not want to go. If any
honourable Member thinks they know of
anyone being treated in this way, they
should contact my office in Downing Street
with the details.
As the scale of the tragedy became clear,
we quickly decided that there had to be an
independent public inquiry. As I said to
the House yesterday, it will
be chaired by a judge to get to
the truth about what happened and who was
responsible, and to provide justice for the
victims and their families who suffered so
terribly. All those with an interest,
including survivors and victims’ families,
will be consulted about the terms of
reference, and we will pay for legal
representation for those affected.
Listening to survivors last night, it also
became clear that they want support to come
together as a group to have their voices
heard, and the Government will play our
part in helping them to do so. For too
long, residents have been overlooked and
ignored. We will ensure that they are
involved in every step of this process. No
stone will be left unturned in this inquiry
and, for any guilty parties, there will be
nowhere to hide.
I am also clear that we cannot wait for
ages to learn the immediate lessons, and so
I expect that the chair of the inquiry will
want to produce an interim report as early
as possible.
I know that many others living in tall
residential buildings will have concerns
about their safety after what happened at
Grenfell. All social landlords have been
instructed to carry out additional fire
safety checks on tower blocks and ensure
that the appropriate safety and response
measures are in place. This is being done
in co-operation with local fire and rescue
services. We have also taken steps to make
private landlords aware and have made our
checking facilities available to them for
free.
The House should, of course, be careful on
speculating what caused this fire, but as a
precaution the Government have arranged to
test cladding in all relevant tower blocks.
Shortly before I came to the Chamber, I was
informed that a number of these tests have
come back as combustible. The relevant
local authorities and local fire services
have been informed and, as I speak, they
are taking all possible steps to ensure
buildings are safe and to inform affected
residents. Immediately after this
Statement, the Department for Communities
and Local Government will contact any MPs
whose constituents are affected, and the
Communities Secretary will provide a
further update later today.
We can test over 100 buildings a day, and
the results come within hours. I urge any
landlord who owns a building of this kind
to send samples for testing as soon as
possible. Any results will be communicated
immediately to local authorities and local
fire services. Landlords have a legal
obligation to provide safe buildings and,
where they cannot do that, we expect
alternative accommodation to be provided.
We cannot and will not ask people to live
in unsafe homes.
It is clear that the Royal Borough of
Kensington and Chelsea was not able to cope
with the scale of the tragedy, so we will
also develop a new strategy for resilience
in major disasters, which could include a
new civil disaster response taskforce that
can help at times of emergency.
Finally, we must learn some of the lessons
of this and previous disasters where
bereaved families have not had the support
they need. We will introduce an independent
public advocate for public disasters, a
strong independent voice for victims and on
behalf of bereaved families, supporting
them at public inquests and inquiries.
In the past week, a lot of remarkable
people have gone above and beyond to help
deal with the fire and its aftermath. First
and foremost, of course, are the incredible
men and women of the emergency services who
did so much to save so many lives. I cannot
imagine the kind of bravery it takes to run
into a burning building and head upstairs
when any normal person would head for the
exits. But we have also seen sterling work
from people across the public
sector—teachers, nurses, staff from various
local authorities and civil servants—who
are doing all they can to help. We have
seen incredible acts of generosity from
private businesses, and we have seen the
people of this great city and this great
country stepping up to help in any way they
can, by donating money, clothes, toys and
food, volunteering their time, and so much
more.
But above all, I want to pay tribute to the
people of Kensington, who have opened their
hearts and homes to people affected by the
fire, coming together and showing what a
real community looks like. The selfless
actions of local people and the courage and
resilience of the survivors should give us
all pause for thought.
Right now, our focus is on supporting the
victims, finding homes for those made
homeless and making sure this country’s
housing stock is as safe as possible. But
as we move forwards, so we must also
recognise that for too long in our country,
under Governments of both colours, we
simply have not given enough attention to
social housing. That itself is actually a
symptom of an even more fundamental issue.
It should not take a disaster of this kind
for us to remember that there are people in
Britain today living lives that are so far
removed from those that many here in
Westminster enjoy—that in this tower, just
a few miles from the Houses of Parliament,
and in the heart of our great city, people
live a fundamentally different life, do not
feel the state works for them and are
therefore mistrustful of it. So, long after
the TV cameras have gone and the world has
moved on, let the legacy of this awful
tragedy be that we resolve never to forget
these people and instead gear our policies
and thinking towards making their lives
better and bringing them into the political
process. It is our job as a Government, and
I believe as a Parliament, to show we are
listening and that we will stand up for
them. That is what I am determined we
should do. I commend this Statement to the
House”.
That concludes the Statement.
-
My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for
repeating this very comprehensive
Statement, with lots of information in
there. She will understand that it also
begs a number of questions, and I hope that
she will be able to answer them today—but,
if she is not, I shall be happy for her to
write to me.
First, it is right that we recognise the
almost unspeakable horror of the fire in
which so many have lost lives, friends,
family, their homes and all their
possessions; it is a tragedy on an almost
unimaginable scale. If you listen to those
who are affected, it is clear that it is
never going to leave them; it will stay
with them for the rest of their
lives. The noble Baroness is quite right to
say that the support is not just for today
or tomorrow—it is long-term support that we
are talking about.
I also place on record our huge gratitude
to the emergency services—the medical
staff, police and, particularly, the fire
and rescue services, which went above and
beyond the call of duty. I understand from
those who have seen and heard the
recordings from the fire engines when they
arrived at the fire, they could not believe
what they were going to. They were saying,
“How in the something or other are we ever
going to get into that building to rescue
people?”. Those were the comments that they
were making as they arrived. There was no
structural engineer on site at that point,
so they had no way of knowing if it was
safe to go into that building or not—but
they went in. Many years ago, I did some
fire service training as a fire authority
member, and I have done a mock-up wearing
breathing apparatus. That was in safe
conditions, but I know something of how
terrifying it must be for those who arrive
at such a scene, and the bravery of those
men and women who attended the fire. No
words can express how grateful we and
others are to them.
The response from the local community and
the public was almost overwhelming, such
was the scale of the horror of what they
witnessed. However, as the noble Baroness
has said, the response from the local
council was nothing short of appalling and
a disaster. I pay tribute to the other
London boroughs which do not have the
wealth or resources or the financial
reserves of Kensington and Chelsea but
which went to the aid and assistance of
people outside their borough to do what
they could to help—and they seemed better
able to provide some of the support that
was needed. The noble Baroness made the
point that the council was certainly not up
to responding to residents’ needs.
I welcome the inquiry, which is a step
forward. The noble Baroness is right to say
that there should be an interim report—one
hopes by the summer—but, as well as the
other issues that it addresses, can it
address the wider issues of accountability?
The management of that block was outsourced
to a private company, which does not
seem—and this will be borne out by the
inquiry—to have had any direct relationship
with the residents so that the residents
could force it to respond or have any
accountability process. That should be
looked at as part of the wider issues.
I note in the Queen’s Speech that the
Government have taken up the proposal from
my noble friend of a
public advocate. It would seem that, the
quicker we can have somebody in place to
advise those who want to play a role and be
involved in the inquiry, the better. I hope
that we can look at that ASAP.
Clearly, this is a fast-moving situation,
with new information and details emerging
all the time. I appreciate that government
and local councils want to reassure people,
but we can reassure people only if they are
genuinely safe; people cannot be reassured
unless the necessary checks have been
undertaken and any changes have been made
so that people are safe. Shortly after the
Prime Minister gave her Statement to the
House of Commons, we heard the alarming
news that, when in the Statement
today she mentioned that a “number” of
high-rise tower blocks were affected, up to
600 in England alone could have combustible
cladding installed. Can the noble Baroness
confirm that the figure of around 600 is
correct? If it is, when did that figure
become known to the Government? What action
are the Government taking? If there are 600
blocks of flats in England alone in that
situation, the scale of the work to be done
is just enormous. The Downing Street
spokeswoman said earlier today that:
“Obviously nobody will be living in
buildings that are unsafe. They will be
rehoused if they need to be and landlords
will be asked to provide alternative
accommodation where that’s possible”.
If 600 blocks are affected, I am not sure
that the checks can done as quickly as
that. If 100 blocks can be checked today,
it will still be quite a long time before
all blocks are checked and any work is
undertaken. If those people are to be
rehoused, it will be more than a million
people. There must be some contingency
plans for the Government to work with local
councils on that, because this clearly
seems to be beyond the scale of most local
authorities’ ability to cope. Can the noble
Baroness confirm whether that figure is
correct, when the Government knew and what
action is being taken?
I have a couple of questions on resources
for local authorities. This is clearly
going to be an expensive business—rightly
so—for local authorities to undertake
properly, so are local authorities
guaranteed the resources to carry out any
necessary additional checks? What
conversations or discussions have there
been between central government and the
private companies that have supplied and
fitted such cladding on to high-rise
blocks? There is an issue about whether all
housing providers have been alerted by
those companies that fitted such cladding.
The inquiry is welcome, but the noble
Baroness is right to say that we do not
have to wait to take action. After the
previous fire that we saw in 2009, I gather
that the coroner’s recommendations were
made in 2013 to the Department for
Communities and Local Government about
retrofitting sprinklers—those
recommendations could be acted on now. We
would be grateful if the noble Baroness
could respond on that.
When the Prime Minister was asked in the
House of Commons about whether the
buildings were compliant with building
regulations, she said that the police and
fire services were investigating and would
report in 24 hours. That is a reasonable
response in terms of the buildings that we
are talking about, but the legal position
regarding that kind of cladding on
high-rise buildings is not a matter for the
fire and rescue service or the police to
investigate; the Government must know
whether or not the building regulations
allow it. Can the noble Baroness respond
immediately on that? I cannot see why we
have to wait 24 hours for a statement from
the fire and rescue services, because
whether the building regulations do or do
not allow it should be a matter of fact. In
terms of this particular block, there were
building regulations inspections. Were
faults found during those inspections and,
if they were, was action taken to remedy
the faults? It is clear that there were
complaints beforehand.
I have one final point: a Minister
commented to me a while ago regarding
deregulation that the Government’s policy
was that you had to have three regulations
out before you could bring
another one in. We all know that society
does not like to be overregulated—nobody
wants unnecessary red tape—but that seems
to not look at the value of regulation; it
is a numerical chance exercise. Can the
noble Baroness confirm whether that is the
case? I would be delighted if it was not,
but if that is still government policy,
surely it should be reviewed. We should
regard regulations on their merit, not on
the number of regulations, which is
completely irrelevant in terms of safety
for society.
The Statement is comprehensive and welcome.
As times goes on, there will be some
challenging, difficult and perhaps
uncomfortable truths to be faced about how
society operates and how it treats poorer
people, particularly with regard to
housing. This is a disaster beyond anything
we could have ever contemplated. If lessons
are not learned from this, we will be doing
the public an enormous disservice.
-
My Lords, I, too, thank the noble Baroness
the Leader of the House for repeating the
extremely comprehensive Statement. I take
the opportunity to pay tribute to all those
who lost their lives in the tragedy; our
sympathies are, of course, with all those
residents who will have to rebuild their
lives after such a horrific event and with
the families of those affected. I also put
on record again the huge debt of gratitude
that we owe to those in the fire service
and all the emergency services who worked
tirelessly to rescue residents and support
families in the immediate circumstances of
the fire, and in the almost as bad
circumstances of having to sift through the
building day after day to see what they
could find in the wreckage.
There was a huge gulf in the response to
this tragedy between the public and the
Government. The public acted immediately
and with great generosity. Government, both
national and local, acted slowly and,
initially at least, without the same energy
or generosity. It took the Government 48
hours to establish a central command
centre, for example, and the borough
council seemed unprepared and overwhelmed.
If this had been a terrorist attack, the
response would have been far more
effective—we saw that in London only a few
days ago. Things that have, for example,
taken 48 hours in this case, would, in the
case of a terrorist attack, be in place
within 48 minutes. There was clearly a
failure of emergency planning for this kind
of incident, which we do not see for
terrorist attacks, for which emergency
planning is clearly extremely good. So I
ask the Government: what immediate steps
are being taken to ensure that such a
failure will not be replicated in any
future non-terrorist incident?
The Government say that they welcome—and
indeed precipitated—the resignation of the
chief executive of Kensington and Chelsea
council. But what about the leader of the
council? It was a political decision to
stockpile huge cash reserves while
apparently skimping on safety measures.
Will the Government now be asking him to
resign also?
We welcome the public inquiry that has been
announced by the Prime Minister. We must
obviously ask a raft of difficult
questions, including why the fire spread so
quickly and why the lessons of the past
seem not to have been learned, but there
are obvious concerns about how
long such an inquiry might last. History is
not very encouraging in this respect. Can
the Leader of the House give any further
assurances in terms of both the speed with
which any interim recommendations might be
produced and how we can ensure that the
full inquiry does not drag on for years?
The Statement says that a number of tests
already carried out have shown other blocks
to be clad in combustible materials, and
the Government claim that all local
authorities and fire services are now
taking all possible steps to ensure
buildings are safe. Given that some—indeed
many—of these steps will be costly, can the
Government give an assurance today that
they will not be delayed by any shortage of
funding? In the case of such buildings
which are privately owned, what steps
beyond exhortation will the Government take
to ensure that the owners fulfil their
legal obligations to provide safe
buildings?
It is clear that, when the tests on all
these buildings are complete, there will be
a need for large-scale remedial action. If
there are 600 blocks, there will be a vast
amount of work that needs doing quickly.
This can be undertaken only by skilled
workers in the construction sector. Given
that there is already a shortage of such
skills, particularly in London, and that
50% of the construction workforce in London
is from the EU, can the noble Baroness give
an assurance that, as the Brexit talks
proceed, every encouragement will be given
to such workers to continue to come to
London, as any major labour shortage in
this area could be literally a matter of
life and death?
There are a number of issues in the
Statement that could legitimately give rise
to anger. But what got to me was the Prime
Minister’s peroration. She said:
“It should not take a disaster of this kind
for us to remember that there are people in
Britain today living lives that are so far
removed from those that many here in
Westminster enjoy”;
and she went on,
“let the legacy of this awful tragedy be
that we resolve never to forget these
people and instead to gear our policies and
our thinking towards making their lives
better and bringing them into the political
process. It is our job as a Government … to
show we are listening and that we will
stand up for them”.
This is a leader of a party who has just
stood on an election manifesto to cut
spending in schools by 7% and impose big
further cuts in welfare payments and local
government expenditure. This hypocrisy
makes me very angry. Will the noble
Baroness the Leader of the House suggest to
the Prime Minister that if she really
wishes to stand up for people such as the
tenants of Grenfell Tower, she should start
to adopt policies which follow her words?
-
I express my thanks to the noble Baroness,
Lady Smith, and the noble Lord, Lord Newby,
for their comments and contributions today.
As we have all recognised, this has been
one of the most unimaginable tragedies that
we have seen in many years. I once again
reiterate that our thoughts at this time
are very much with the families and all
those affected. I reassure everyone that
the Government’s focus is on doing
everything possible to help those affected.
Before I respond to some of the points the
noble Lords have made, in the light of the
tragic events, my noble friend will provide time to update
Peers on the events and the Government’s
response. He will host an all-Peers
briefing session on Monday 26 June at 3 pm
in Room 10A. As the noble Baroness said,
given that things are changing regularly,
we hope that the comments of my noble
friend on the latest issues will be a
very useful update for noble Lords.
I will try to answer as many questions as I
can but I shall read noble Lords’ comments,
and I apologise if I do not respond to
everything at this point. I will try to
follow up where I can afterwards. Both the
noble Baroness and the noble Lord asked
about the public inquiry. I reassure
everyone that we want to leave no stone
unturned, which is why we have ordered a
public, judge-led inquiry. Draft terms of
reference have been shared with the Lord
Chief Justice and discussions about a
potential chair are ongoing. We hope to
have a confirmed appointment very shortly.
I also reassure noble Lords that the
families of victims and other interested
parties will be consulted on the terms of
reference, as it is essential that their
voices are heard, and, as the noble
Baroness rightly said, that the whole range
of issues that need to be investigated are
included in this inquiry.
The noble Baroness asked about the 600
figure, which I should clarify. We think
that there may be around 600 buildings
which have cladding. That is not to say
that is combustible cladding but we think
that about 600 buildings have cladding.
Landlords are now examining these to see
which have aluminium composite material
which may need to be tested. Testing will
reveal how many have the wrong type of
cladding. It is important also to stress
that aluminium composite material cladding
itself is not dangerous, but it is
important that the right type is used. Not
all those 600 buildings may have an issue;
that is the range of buildings which may
need to be looked at. I can also confirm to
the noble Lord that the testing being
undertaken is free. The Government are
providing the funding for that, so funding
should not get in the way of testing.
Indeed, we are urging all landlords to make
sure that they send in samples as quickly
as possible. The labs can test about 100 a
day and results can be turned around very
quickly so we can get very quick responses.
Indeed, Camden council announced this
morning or this afternoon that it needs to
investigate one of its buildings. It has
acted very quickly on the information it
has received. Therefore, we very much hope
that everyone will send their samples in
and we will be able to take action as
quickly as possible.
The noble Baroness, Lady Smith, asked about
the building regulations. Cladding using a
composite aluminium panel with a
polyethylene core would be non-compliant
under current building regulations, as this
material should not be used as cladding on
buildings over 18 metres in height. It is
also important to note that tests are
ongoing to identify the exact causes of the
fire, but we will, of course, take all
steps necessary to prevent this happening
again. The cost of dealing with the
cladding on buildings will, of course, vary
depending on the buildings. It is the
landlord’s responsibility to
ensure that people are safe but cost
considerations should not, and cannot, get
in the way of that, so we will look at how
we can provide support. We will also
obviously work with local authorities where
they identify issues to ensure that they
have the resources they need to deal with
the issues that they may find.
The noble Lord, Lord Newby, commented on
the initial response. The Prime Minister
has been very clear that we absolutely
accept that the initial support for
families was simply not good enough. She
has apologised and I do so again on behalf
of the Government. In terms of actions
going forward, one of the actions that we
will take is to set up a new civil disaster
response task force. That will be part of
our procedures going forward, so that we
can try to ensure that the suffering people
experienced after the event because the
response was not good enough does not occur
again.
-
My Lords, I knew this block of flats well
as it was part of a complex—about six or
eight of them—which was included in the
Hammersmith area which I represented for
many years. I often went into Grenfell
Tower when campaigning for elections. It is
important to say that those flats were very
spacious inside and were not at all
unpopular with residents if—this was the
crucial bit—they were managed well. There
are questions about management on which my
noble friend and others have touched. That
is a matter for the inquiry and I do not
wish to second-guess it. However—this is
very important—my understanding from many
people who have made comments, such as
residents and organisations or individuals
representing residents in that block, is
that they warned of a fire risk. If
residents or residents’ associations or
representatives express concern about fire
safety, that should be dealt with as a
matter of urgency and immediately, whatever
the other concerns. It is far too serious
to be put to one side to be looked at
later. Sadly, in this context, I note that
the chief executive has resigned. I guess
that is probably the right thing to do.
Having heard the leader of the council’s
comments on television soon after the
event, I felt that he was out of his depth
and did not understand the extreme nature
of the horror that had overtaken that block
of flats. In those circumstances, I also
think that he should consider his position.
-
I disagree with nothing that the noble Lord
has said. As I have said, we want the
inquiry to look at all elements of this
tragedy to make sure that such things do
not happen again. The noble Lord is
absolutely right: we have heard a lot of
reports of the residents’ groups
complaining and putting forward their
points of view about their concerns and not
being listened to. That is why it is
crucial that we get the inquiry set up,
that it is judge led and that the voices of
families and victims are heard so that we
can make sure this does not happen again. I
know that is of no comfort to the families
who have lost their lives in this but we
will have to learn these lessons and make
sure that we follow through.
-
My Lords, as my noble friend outlined, 151
homes have been destroyed. However, has an
accurate list been compiled of all the
residents of the block? My noble friend
outlined that homes will be provided to
people on the same terms as the ones they
had. Has a clear communication been given
that for residents who may have resided in
the block without a tenancy agreement, or
with a tenancy agreement not authorised by
the landlord, that does not matter one jot
when it comes to rehousing people and
considering the effects of this incident on
them? I welcome the Government’s response
that the immigration status of anybody in the
building is utterly irrelevant to their
receiving compensation. Will my noble friend
the Leader of the House ask my noble friend
Lady Williams to consider earnestly what the
Home Office policy will be? Some people may
end up in front of Home Office
decision-makers. What will be the
Government’s policy in relation to any
victims who have irregular immigration
status?
-
I am very happy to reiterate that the
Government will not use this tragic incident
as a reason to carry out immigration checks
on those involved and those providing vital
information to identify victims. I also
reassure the House that we will make sure
that all victims, irrespective of their
immigration status, will be able to access
the services they need, including
accommodation and healthcare.
-
My Lords, I was a councillor in an adjoining
ward of Golborne and I am a long-term
resident in the area. The Government’s
response at last appears to be closer to the
scale of the tragedy. How can one justify a
council which has given priority to keeping
council tax down and which has placed so much
emphasis on outsourcing what are in effect
its responsibilities in management and
housing generally? On visas, will the funeral
visas be extended to family members who want
to come to this country to help those who
have been affected? Finally, did I hear the
Leader correctly when she said that she
agreed with my noble friend Lord Soley that
the council leader should consider his
position?
-
I said that I agreed with much of what the
noble Lord, Lord Soley said. It is not for me
to make those decisions, but we have all
accepted that the response was not good
enough, so I think everyone is looking at
themselves to see what we can do better in
the future. On the noble Lord’s questions
about visas, my understanding is—I might need
to write to confirm this—that a number of
family members in cases where their loved
ones and relatives have been involved have
already been able to come over. I do not know
the exact numbers, but we are already working
hard to ensure that at this awful time family
members can come over to be with their loved
ones.
-
My Lords, accountability is very important in
political life to ensure that the people we
take decisions for trust those of us who
represent them. The noble Baroness has so far
failed to respond to direct questions from my
noble friend Lord Newby and the noble Lord,
Lord Soley, about the position of the leader
of Kensington Borough
Council. This was a council-owned
building, the council had invested in
renovating it, and it went up in flames,
destroying the lives of, so far, 79 people.
For accountability to be real, should not the
leader of the council resign?
-
As the Prime Minister said in her Statement,
we believe that it is right that the chief
executive resigned because we have
acknowledged all along that there has not
been good enough support for the families. As
I have also said, the judge-led inquiry will
allow us to look at the broader circumstances
leading up to and surrounding the tragic fire
at Grenfell Tower so that all lessons can be
learned by everyone involved.
-
My Lords, I welcome the Statement and the
eventual comprehensive response, and I
particularly welcome the speech given by the
noble Baroness, the Leader of the Opposition,
which was especially powerful and helpful.
Having been with voluntary groups at the
Grenfell Tower during the day following the
fire, I have two questions. First, one of the
fire officers we were talking to said, “This
is the third once-in-a-generation event in a
few weeks”. The number of emergency service
people, who for the third time in a very few
weeks put their lives on the line and found
themselves in a situation of the most
absolute horror, seeking to save the victims
who were caught in the fire as well as in the
previous terrorist incidents, is much higher
than would normally be expected. Can the
Leader of the House confirm that there will
be no budgetary constraints on the emergency
services in providing support for those who
have been involved in taking these huge risks
and that those services will be adequately
funded above and beyond their normal
provision in supporting those who may need
extra support after such a traumatic period?
Secondly, one of the other notable things is
that around the site of the fire on the
following day the faith communities—there is
reference in the Statement to volunteers—were
working together in a way that completely
gave the lie to the divisions that the
terrorist attacks had sought to create. This
was the most powerful visual image of unity,
and of unity around the suffering. Would she
agree that those communities also merit
mention and commendation?
-
I am happy to agree with the comments of the
most reverend Primate. We also saw a similar
coming together of community after the
Finsbury Park mosque incident, so I am very
happy to endorse everything he said. With
regard to the emergency services, again, I
think we have all agreed about the emergency
services and the bravery of the fire
services—the noble Baroness, Lady Smith,
spoke very well about that. We saw in their
response that they were able to act very
quickly and to do everything within their
power to save as many people as possible. Of
course, we commend all the incredible work
that they do.
-
Is it possible to take into account that
there were a lot of people to put the fire
out, but where were the people to stop the
fire from happening? If you know that
particular part of London—Notting Hill and
Latimer Road—you will know that over
the last 30 or 40 years the
council has shifted and ethnically cleansed
other parts of the Royal Borough of
Kensington and Chelsea, moving them into an
area that has become pretty troubled. I want
to know what we are going to do about
councils that have very rich parts of their
borough but do not know how to deal with the
poor parts. This has been going on for a
considerable period of time. By the way, I
speak as an ex-employee of the Royal Borough
of Kensington and Chelsea.
-
Obviously, a lot of work is going on within
government to learn the lessons. We are
focused on dealing with the immediate
aftermath, but as I have also said, we want
the inquiry to look at the broader
circumstances that led up to the tragic fire,
and we will work across government to make
sure that we address the issues, whatever
they may be, to make sure that this does not
happen again.
-
My Lords, surely the most disturbing aspect
of this is that people forecast a terrible
fire. Should we not conduct some sort of
survey of those living in tower blocks around
the country? We are having the cladding
examined, but should we not try to find out
whether in other parts of the country people
living in similar tower blocks have warned
the local authorities of their fears? This
was an unspeakable disaster, but for another
one to happen would be totally unforgivable.
-
I am sure that local authorities are
considering the sorts of issues that my noble
friend has mentioned. As I said, what is most
important is that we get the cladding checked
on these buildings to make sure that we can
truly identify where there may be issues and
act quickly. That is why we have set up these
testing centres, why we are turning round
results as quickly as possible, and why we
were very pleased, for instance, to see
Camden’s very swift and impressive response
once it discovered an issue with one of its
blocks.
-
Going back to the inquiry, quantity
surveyors, the architects, the main
contractors, the subcontractors, the building
control officers and the planning officers of
the council will all have many questions to
ask. Will their answers all appear in the
interim report and will the findings of the
inquiry at that stage also be in the interim
report? In particular, I ask that the
specifications originally set by the
architect and approved, we have to assume, by
the building control officers and the fire
authorities, will be in the appendices of the
interim report so that we can all see them,
along with all the approval documentation and
survey reports by all the organisations
involved. Some of us will be more interested
in seeing what is in those documents than
reading the report itself, because we will
probably want to make up our own mind.
-
Obviously, it will be for the head of the
inquiry to decide exactly how they want to
conduct the inquiry. However, as I have said,
we want to ensure that voices are heard and
that the terms of reference of the inquiry
cover all the issues that, rightly, families,
victims and others want to see. I therefore
assume that the judge who is appointed
will be taking soundings and will
have views on the terms of reference. I
cannot speak for them about what the interim
report will include but I think we are all
very conscious of the fact that we want this
to be done speedily and that we expect an
interim report.
-
My Lords, will the announced public inquiry
be conducted under the full rigour of the
Inquiries Act 2005? We have this Act; it
should be used.
-
As I said, we want to leave no stone
unturned, and therefore this will be a full,
independent, judge-led inquiry.
-
Perhaps I may follow on from the questions in
relation to the public inquiry and the
reference that has just been made to the
legislation. Can we please ensure that when
people give evidence, they do so in full and
do not hide behind the fact that, if they
answer certain questions, they might
incriminate themselves, which could result in
a criminal prosecution? People expect a
public inquiry to be full and public, not
partially full and partially in public.
-
As I hope I have made clear to noble Lords,
we want a judge-led inquiry. It will be for
the person appointed to lead the inquiry and
to determine how it works. However, as we
have said, we want to make sure that all
voices are heard, and I am sure that whoever
leads the inquiry will refer to this debate
with interest and take account of noble
Lords’ comments.
-
Can the noble Baroness confirm that the Fire
Brigades Union asked the Department for
Communities and Local Government to update
Part B of the building regulations—the fire
safety regulations—some time ago and that
this has not been done? Especially as she
confirmed the element of illegality of
certain types of cladding, does she know
whether the request was to look in any way at
the nature of cladding? Can she also take the
opportunity to answer the question asked by
my noble friend the Leader of the Opposition
about the Government’s future attitude to
regulation? It is significant that the Prime
Minister says in the Statement that the state
has not worked for many people. I suggest
that the reason for that is that in recent
years it has been so whittled away in respect
of important and defensible regulations, not
least in relation to planning and housing.
-
I am afraid that I will have to write to the
noble Baroness because I do not know the
answer to her question about the fire union’s
request. I apologise but I will write to her.
-
Having listened to the Statement and the
comments from the House, I cannot help
thinking, as a former housing officer, that
this dreadful tragedy is a terrible episode
in a systemic failure. I recognise that the
Government are making every effort to respond
to the tragedy—albeit too late—but I wonder
whether the Minister might respond to the
systemic issues. There is evidence that a
letter was sent to the Housing Minister by
the APPG—which consists of experts
who know about fire safety in
buildings—asking for the regulations to be
updated. That advice and request should have
been responded to some time ago and it would
be a shame if a public inquiry stopped it
being responded to now. Equally, the concerns
that the Grenfell Tower residents sent to
their landlord appear to have been ignored,
and it would be a shame if a public inquiry
stopped those concerns too being responded to
immediately. Similarly, the comments from the
noble Lord, Lord Bird, about ethnic cleansing
cannot be ignored. I cannot help but notice
that the skin colour of a number of the
people affected by the tragedy happens to be
nearer the shade of my skin than that of
others. If we are to respond to the systemic
issues of this tragedy as well as the
episodic ones, we have to look at the
allocations policy in local government
housing, at the design of social housing and
at the paucity of policy leadership in this
area. Perhaps the Minister would care to
respond to that.
-
I can certainly reassure the noble Lord that,
although the findings of the public inquiry
will of course feed into the work that we are
doing, that work will not stop, and we are
continuing to work on simplifying the
guidance on the fire safety building
regulations. Therefore, there will not be a
stop on the action but the public inquiry
will of course play an important part in
helping us to ensure that we have a suitable
response across all the issues that have led
to this tragic accident.
-
-
My Lords, besides the issues of the public
inquiry, it will also be necessary to look at
the structure of local government taxation.
Those of us who live in the middle of
London—I live in the City of Westminster, not
in the royal borough—are acutely aware of the
very low differential between the taxes paid
by those of us who live in desirable
properties in desirable areas and the amount
paid by people who live in less desirable
properties in less desirable areas. There
really ought to be a bigger bandwidth between
the two.
-
I thank my noble friend for those comments.
The point he makes comes somewhat outside
what I can say today, but the Minister for
the department is here and has, I am sure,
listened with interest.
|