Meeting of the Senedd Culture, Communications, Welsh
Language, Sport, and International Relations Committee
February 8 2024
The purpose of the meeting was to hear evidence from
other legislatures on the subject of culture and the new
relationship with the European Union.
Witnesses:
-
, House of Lords
- Eluned Haf, Wales Arts International
- Ruth Cocks, British Council Wales
- Tom Kiehl, UK Music
Extracts
:
I need to start by saying, of course, I'm no longer working in
the sector, so I am collecting evidence, if you like, in the way
that you are. It may have a more personal resonance for me than
for some of your committee, although, I don't know, you may have
some performing artists there amongst you. So, I'm really trying
to be a voice for the sector.6
I think what's interesting about the impact of Brexit is it has
uncovered, perhaps, the truth that systems are often set up for
big entities, for large corporations. What we see is that freedom
of movement within the EU was masking that, because it allowed
anybody the full freedoms of membership of the EU, particularly
freedom of movement of people and services. Of course, that's
particularly impactful for the creative industries, because the
creative industries, the cultural sector, are largely made up of
small and medium-sized enterprises—small companies, far fewer
than 10 people. So, they are hit very hard by the impact of
losing that freedom to move across borders.7
I think we see the impact in four areas, and I'm sure we'll go on
to talk about them a little bit more: the patchwork of visa and
work permit arrangements in the 27 EU countries, which is
impacting people's ability just to manage all of that,
notwithstanding the cost of it too; the costs of carnets to move
goods—to move equipment, really—across borders; cabotage
restrictions that mean that trucks can't stop in multiple
countries before returning to their UK base; and then CITES
requirements, so, the Convention on International Trade in
Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora, which impacts
musicians who have, typically, ivory in the musical instruments.8
What's becoming apparent is that this is having the greatest
impact on younger, emerging artists, and this is really because
they don't have the resources to withstand the administrative,
financial and bureaucratic burdens of making those multiple
arrangements. I would say that, of course, this isn't just about
economic hits for artists, it's about cultural and creative
missed opportunities that impact all of us. I do try to make the
point that this is also hurting artists and arts organisations in
the EU, not just in terms of the ability to come here, but
because of the contribution that UK artists have always made to
the EU arts scene, to the music industry there. So, there's a
cultural hit, there's an economic hit, there's an opportunity hit
for young people.
Eluned Haf, Wales Arts International:
The first thing to say is that there is a need to look at where
data emanates from. I think there is a richness of data available
from before we left the EU in terms of programmes and funding and
what has been spent in Wales. But, of course, that does not
represent the movement of artists, and it isn't either,
necessarily, something that is consistent across the four nations
of the UK. So, I think there is a need to consider data. Having
said that, there are bodies, such as UK Music and the Independent
Society of Musicians, that have done a lot of work specifically
in regard to musicians across the UK, and, at that point, I think
I'll bring Tom in to provide you with more details on the music
sector.
Tom Kiehl, UK Music:
What I wanted to say about Creative Europe, and this is probably
looking at it primarily from the more commercial sector than
other slightly more subsidised arts—Creative Europe was
undoubtedly a good thing and something that should support the
sector, and this is, obviously, a very music-specific example—I
don't think we made enough of it whilst we were members of the
European Union. We did hear of people having trouble accessing
it, and that may be just because the way it was designed, in some
ways trying to bring some of the other member states to make
their music industries maybe more aligned, like the UK one. So,
not so much, necessarily, that there's a defined benefit there,
but in terms of seeing that it was working properly in the way it
could potentially do for the music industry, I do know that there
were definitely some frustrations around that area. So, I
wouldn't want it to be seen, necessarily, as a kind of panacea,
at least for our sector, notwithstanding other cultural and
creative arts.162
Just in terms of other Brexit potentials, if you don't mind me—.
One area we do annual data on is around music tourism and people
coming over to the UK for gigs and festivals. Wales had £218
million to the Welsh economy generated via music tourism, and
30,000 of that was from overseas people. And that has actually
increased since the pandemic.
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