Asked by
To ask His Majesty’s Government what steps they are taking to
encourage and develop a network of public charging and refuelling
sites for zero-emission HGVs, and what policies are they adopting
to encourage and facilitate the development of charging and
refuelling infrastructure at commercial HGV depots.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for
Transport () (Con)
My Lords, the Government recognise that charging and refuelling
sites required to support zero-emission HGV uptake will need to
increase before 2040. Last year’s future of freight plan
committed to convening industry stakeholders to develop a plan
for rollout, which is happening through our Freight Energy Forum.
Extensive stakeholder engagement will begin later this year.
(LD)
My Lords, it is accepted that a very large number of electric
vehicle charging points, particularly ultra-fast ones, will be
required in the near future, and that those will mainly be needed
in depots. However, the National Grid is giving applicants for
extra grid capacity completion dates and access dates that are
well into the 2030s. What are the Government doing to ensure
there is sufficiently large grid capacity throughout the UK to
enable this logistics revolution to proceed apace?
(Con)
The Government are taking a two-phased approach to this, and
those phases are happening concurrently. The first is that we
need to discuss with industry stakeholders exactly how they feel
the strategy for the rollout of zero-emission vehicles will go,
particularly at the heavy end. That is why we will publish the
zero-emission HGV infrastructure strategy later this year, once
we have been able to discuss it with those stakeholders. The
Government are confident that the grid can cope with the
increased demand, and the next step is to ensure that depots can
connect to it. We are working with the DNOs to find the most
cost-effective solution to that.
(Con)
My Lords, can we pause and reflect for a moment on the
implications of this situation? As has already been suggested,
would not a fleet of HGVs all topping up with electricity add a
colossal load to our electricity supply and transmission system,
even to the point, some say, that the existing cables could melt,
causing local outages? Where is this enormous extra volume of
electricity going to come from and where is the investment to
generate it; and where is the investment for the National Grid
transformation required to get any of this to work?
(Con)
My noble friend raises a very important point. That is why, as
part of the decarbonisation of HGVs, the Government are investing
£200 million in the zero-emission road freight demonstrator
programme, which will look at all the different technologies
available. For some vehicles, battery electric will be the best
option, but for others we expect hydrogen fuel cells to be far
more relevant. Therefore, we need the zero-emission HGV
infrastructure strategy, which will examine what a network of
green hydrogen sites would look like, as well as the impact on
the grid and where on it the additional electricity will be
needed.
(Con)
My Lords, a number of HGV fleet operators I have talked to in
Cambridgeshire just want decisions to be made and a strategy to
be progressed. Many of them think that hydrogen fuel cells will
be the best technology for large HGVs, but there is no
infrastructure for that, and they are looking for support for
infrastructure well before the date on which they have to stop
buying new diesel trucks.
(Con)
I accept it is most likely that a hydrogen refuelling
infrastructure will be needed. That is exactly why the Government
are taking time, over the next six months or so, working with the
stakeholders who sit on the Freight Energy Forum to establish
exactly what that might look like. We need to set the strategic
direction to ensure that the infrastructure is in place for 2040,
but we also need to look at the evidence that will come from the
zero-emission road freight demonstrator programme so that it can
feed into that strategy.
(Con)
My Lords, I am encouraged by my noble friend the Minister’s reply
to my noble friend . It takes up to 10 hours for
an HGV to plug in and recharge from one of these stations. More
to the point, China controls 75% of battery production, but
hydrogen is a race we are well placed to win. What plans does my
noble friend have to work with producers of HGVs—not only fuel
rod producers but producers of internal combustion engines that
run on hydrogen—to achieve a workable rollout which will cover
our transport networks?
(Con)
My noble friend is right that working with stakeholders is key.
The Government cannot solve the industry’s issues in this regard
by centralising the decision-making for them, and it will be up
to the stakeholders to decide what sort of vehicles they believe
will be taken forward. I believe it will be a combination of
battery electric and hydrogen fuel cells, and that is why the
infrastructure strategy we are working on is so important. My
noble friend mentioned hydrogen internal combustion engines. We
believe that they are not zero-emission engines as they produce
trace carbon dioxide and NOx. They also have very low energy
efficiency in real-world applications, at about 25%, compared to
90% for battery electric and about 60% for hydrogen fuel
cells.
(LD)
My Lords, will the Government ensure that there are sufficient
dedicated recharging facilities available for commercial vehicles
so that large and small commercial vans are deterred from using
the often scarce recharging facilities for private cars available
at motorway services?
(Con)
The Government are working at pace on electric vehicle chargers,
for both commercial and private use. We are focusing on Project
Rapid and the rapid charging fund, which looks at long-distance
journeys. The second area is local electric vehicle
infrastructure, including on-road charging in local areas, which
can be used by commercial vehicles as well.
(CB)
My Lords, I declare my interests as set out in the register. The
problems with the grid and the urgent need for both investment in
and strategic planning for the grid emerge as more and more of an
issue. That is one of the reasons why this House supported an
amendment to the Energy Bill, to give Ofgem an objective to
contribute to the achievement of net zero. Would the Minister be
kind enough to talk to her colleagues and make sure that the
Government do not try to reverse that amendment in another
place?
(Con)
I will certainly ensure that my colleagues are aware of the noble
Baroness’s interest. The price controls being used by Ofgem are
very helpful in encouraging investment. There is new, agile
regulation called the net zero reopener, which allows network
operators to apply for additional funding for zero-emission
projects.
(Lab)
The noble Lord, Lord Howell, is absolutely right about the
exponential increase in demand for electrical power. Does the
Minister agree that the only way we can really achieve this and
have the right amount of baseload power is through the use of
nuclear? We really must put all our weight behind producing
nuclear power, developing SMRs and getting it available;
otherwise, there is no way we will meet this requirement.
(Con)
My colleagues at DESNZ, as I believe it is called nowadays, will
be cognisant of our need to produce a significant amount of
renewable electricity in future, and I hope that nuclear is part
of that.
(CB)
Does the Minister see a connection between the previous Question
and this one, and will she acknowledge that public transport in
this country is in a dire condition? I drive electric. There is
still nowhere to charge up here; one dare not go on a long
journey because there is nowhere to charge. The train between
Didcot and Oxford has been out of action for months. The main
road from the west of Oxford to the station is being closed for
12 months. We are virtually prisoners in our own home. I dread to
think what this is doing for the tourist trade and business
generally, but nobody seems to care.
(Con)
I am very sorry to hear that the noble Baroness has experienced
those issues in her local area; they are certainly not replicated
across the country. She may be talking about the Nuneham viaduct,
where there has been some subsidence. It closed on 3 April. We
understand the frustration, but we are working very closely with
GWR, CrossCountry, Chiltern and Network Rail to ensure that we
get passengers moving. Engineers are working on the project, and
we hope to have good news for the noble Baroness soon.
(Lab)
My Lords, I think the noble Baroness said that the grid said it
was confident it could meet the challenges of HGV electrical
supply. The problem is extremely sophisticated: it is likely to
be grouped in hubs and there is likely to be very high demand.
Electrical systems are basically rather fragile, and this needs a
very sophisticated approach. Is the National Grid part of the
Freight Energy Forum, and if not, why not?
(Con)
The Freight Energy Forum feeds into the Department for Transport
and, indeed, across government. While I accept that HGV depots
will have significantly high demand for renewable electricity,
other areas, particularly hard-to-abate sectors, will need much
more. We are confident that with continued investment in the
grid, we will be able to meet the needs of all the elements that
need to be decarbonised, and that will uptick their electricity
usage. As I mentioned previously, we have done that with a range
of price controls, but also strategic planning for the future.
