Extract from Scottish Parliament - Topical Question Time: Circularity Scotland (Chief Executive’s Salary) - Mar 21

Circularity Scotland (Chief Executive’s Salary)

1. Colin Smyth (South Scotland) (Lab)

To ask the Scottish Government what its position is on whether it is appropriate for the chief executive of Circularity Scotland to be paid a reported annual salary of £300,000. (S6T-01276)

The Minister for Green Skills, Circular Economy and Biodiversity (Lorna Slater)

Circularity Scotland is a not-for-profit company that is delivered and funded by industry in line with the polluter-pays principle. That structure is based on successful schemes elsewhere in Europe and was approved by the Scottish Parliament in 2020. Circularity Scotland is, therefore, separate from Government and we have no role in the recruitment of staff or their pay levels. Decisions on pay are made by the Circularity Scotland board, which is made up of members with a range of experience across a range of sectors. That is appropriate for a private company that is delivering an industry-led scheme.

Colin Smyth

The minister said that the scheme is business led, but let us be clear: it is being big business led at the moment. Only big businesses can become individual members of Circularity Scotland, and it would appear that only big businesses such as Biffa can get contracts for collecting bottles.

Let us also be clear that it was the minister who approved Circularity Scotland. It was not businesses but the minister who made that decision. Was she aware of the proposed wage structure for the company’s senior executive when she appointed Circularity Scotland as the scheme administrator? If not, when did she become aware of the plan to pay such excessive salaries, and has she at any time expressed concern about them? It seems that this monopoly has a licence from the minister to print money not for the benefit of producers but for the benefit of its bosses.

Lorna Slater

Circularity Scotland is a private, not-for-profit company, and it would be inappropriate for ministers to interfere with or comment on—[Interruption.] It is a private company.

The Presiding Officer

Thank you. We will hear the minister.

Lorna Slater

Members of Circularity Scotland include the Scottish Grocers Federation, the Scottish Beer and Pub Association, the Society of Independent Brewers, the National Federation of Retail Newsagents and the Association of Convenience Stores. Those are the bodies that make up Circularity Scotland, and small businesses are powerfully represented.

Colin Smyth

The minister needs to learn to answer the questions that she is asked. I asked her whether she was aware of the wage structures when she appointed Circularity Scotland as the administrator, when she became aware and whether she has, at any time, expressed concern.

Given the importance of ensuring value for money, small producers are deeply worried about the cost of the scheme. Surely the minister should have asked for the information before she made the decision, because the regulations that the Parliament agreed are clear that applications

“for approval as a scheme administrator must be made to the Scottish Ministers”

and must

“include any ... information requested by the Scottish Ministers.”

Why was that information not requested? Given that the minister now knows what the excessive eye-watering salaries are, how does she expect small producers to sign up for a scheme when they are so clearly being ripped off and part of their fees is being used for the excessive salaries of bosses who are using Scotland as a stepping stone for their wider aim of running Deposit return schemes right across the United Kingdom?

Lorna Slater

Circularity Scotland’s application to become scheme administrator was approved on 21 March 2021. Any other organisation can also apply to be scheme administrator provided that it can meet the requirements set out in the Deposit and Return Scheme for Scotland Regulations 2020. The DRS regulations were passed by the Parliament and CSL was an applicant that met those requirements.

Producers and small retailers have been an important part of designing and putting in place Scotland’s Deposit return scheme, and Circularity Scotland has worked closely with them, including in improving cash flow from day 1 and having the highest return-handling fees for manual return points in the world.

Fergus Ewing (Inverness and Nairn) (SNP)

It is clear from the minister’s failure, once again, to answer straightforward questions that Circularity Scotland Ltd is a creature that is entirely out of control. It is deciding its own policies, is deciding its own salaries and will decimate small businesses throughout Scotland, whether those be shops, pubs, clubs, brewers, distillers or recycling companies. In creating Circularity Scotland Ltd, has the minister not, on behalf of the Scottish Government, created a monster—a modern-day, 21st century Frankenstein—that is entirely out of control?

Lorna Slater

Circularity Scotland has been created by industry to support Scottish businesses to comply with the regulations that were passed by the Parliament. The approach of an industry-led scheme that is paid for by industry was supported by Scottish Labour and the Conservatives, and it is the same as schemes around the world. We are not reinventing the wheel here. Scotland’s scheme is in line with successful schemes around the world.

Stephen Kerr (Central Scotland) (Con)

The minister cannot be serious. It is an insult to the Parliament that she comes here, is asked questions and then reads a scripted answer, whether or not it is relevant to the question that has been asked. Is she seriously saying that this not-for-profit company whose creation she has facilitated has nothing to do with her and that it can do what it likes? The people of Scotland will have formed their own views of those monstrous salary figures and of the incompetence of the minister, who is patently not fit for purpose.

Lorna Slater

I did not hear a question in there. Significant progress has been made towards Scotland’s Deposit return scheme as we work towards our go-live date in August this year.

Katy Clark (West Scotland) (Lab)

The Scottish Government has confirmed that Circularity Scotland is to be exempt from the Freedom of Information Act 2000. Does the minister agree that freedom of information should be extended to cover all providers of public services, including private firms that provide public services, such as Circularity Scotland?

Lorna Slater

Circularity Scotland is, indeed, a private not-for-profit company, and it is not subject to freedom of information legislation because it does not provide a public service as described by the member. Therefore, as a private company, it is not subject to freedom of information requests.

Brian Whittle (South Scotland) (Con)

The minister has been dragged into the chamber, week after week, because of the secrecy that has shrouded this Scottish Government-led company. It took a leaked document for us to find out about the extraordinary salaries that are being paid by CSL. We cannot find out anything about CSL because the Scottish Government will not us allow us to FOI something when it does not want to answer a question. Lorna Slater has made CSL a private company so that she does not have to be held accountable and admit how badly the scheme is being rolled out. Is it not about time that she lifted the shroud of secrecy and allowed the Parliament and us parliamentarians to understand what is really going on with this DRS?

Lorna Slater

I have said it before but I am happy to repeat it over and over again: Scotland’s Deposit return scheme is being delivered and funded by industry, and Scottish Labour and the Scottish Conservatives supported that approach, including the creation of an industry-led scheme administrator. Many of the questions that are being answered in the chamber could be answered by simply using Google, because CSL has an excellent website. I encourage members to look at it if they are unsure of the membership and board members of CSL.