Asked by
To ask His Majesty’s Government how many families in receipt of
Universal Credit are subject simultaneously to the benefit cap
and the two child limit.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Work
and Pensions () (Con)
My Lords, both policies aim to introduce fairness between
households claiming benefits and taxpayers who support themselves
solely through work. We estimate from published statistics that
fewer than 30,000 households were impacted by both policies in
April 2022, which is under 1% of households on universal credit.
These families may benefit from additional financial help, such
as the cost of living payment and discretionary housing payment,
if they need additional support to meet rental costs.
(Lab)
My Lords, in the absence of official data hitherto, the Benefit
Changes and Larger Families Project estimates that at least
110,000 children are being pushed deeper into poverty because
their parents are caught by both the cap and the two-child limit.
Evidence of the damaging effects strengthens the case for
scrapping both policies, which are far from fair. At the very
least, will the Government now undertake to publish regular data
on the numbers affected and monitor the impact on children and
their parents?
(Con)
I am certainly aware of the larger families project. The latest
published statistics on households on universal credit show that
the majority of families—79%—on universal credit had fewer than
three children, with 21% of universal credit households with
children having three or more children. Having said that, it is
important to note that there are a number of other initiatives
where we can help families with more than two children if they
get into difficulty.
(CB)
My Lords, one of the major contributors to poverty is the absence
of affordable housing. Shelter produced a really alarming report
this week which showed a year-by-year reduction in the building
of affordable housing over the past 12 years. Do the Government
have a commitment to reverse that policy and to increase the
number of affordable homes built every year so that people living
in abject poverty—particularly those depending on universal
credit—will at least be able to find an affordable home?
(Con)
Absolutely. There are a number of initiatives on housing, which I
am sure the noble Baroness will be aware of. One example is the
discretionary housing payment, which can be paid to those
entitled to housing benefit or the housing element of universal
credit, particularly those who face a shortfall in meeting their
housing costs. It is certainly a matter that I am aware of, and I
know that my noble friend Lady Scott will be very much on top of
that. We are working across government on this issue.
(Con)
My Lords, can my noble friend reassure me that universal credit
still makes work pay despite childcare costs when there is more
than one child? Of course, an at-home parent conscientiously
doing their own childcare in the early years is, in fact,
working. What expectation is placed on claimants to work when
parental care is their strong preference?
(Con)
Yes, my noble friend makes an important point. I should say at
the outset that the Government firmly believe that, where
possible, it is in the best interests of children to be in
working households. That is why the department has continually
provided support to help move people into work. To further that,
this sort of support in making people financially resilient by
moving them into work and also ensuring that they are progressing
in work is important; up to 85% of the registered childcare costs
each month is paid regardless of the number of hours that they
work, compared with 70% for tax credits.
The
My Lords, it is encouraging to see that the Government are
keeping a check on the numbers of people being affected by these
policies, but I was not quite sure whether I heard that work is
being done to measure the impact of the policies on families. I
can say, and it gives me no joy to say it, that from where I
serve in the north of England—I am thinking particularly of
Middlesbrough and Hull—I see the disturbing impact of an increase
in poverty, child poverty and families in very difficult
situations, not least with the cost of living crisis on top of
all this. My simple, genuine and heartfelt question is: how would
you explain this to a mum expecting her third child, or a family
with three or four children who have been pushed into benefits
over the past couple of years? They do not understand why this is
happening but they are suffering as a consequence of it. How do
we explain to them the rightness of this policy?
(Con)
My Lords, first, we are very aware of the fact that some people
are finding it particularly difficult at the moment—some very
good points have been made about that. One of the issues to focus
on, which we are doing, is childcare, which is a key enabler of
employment for parents and has clear developmental benefits for
children. Of course, the onus falls on the caseworkers in the
jobcentres. Often they are very well trained, and they have to
deal directly with these people who come with some heartfelt
stories.
(Lab)
My Lords, can I give a specific example? The most reverend
Primate has talked about the impact on individuals. The larger
families study that the Minister mentioned interviewed parents
who have been affected by this. It gives the example of a single
mother who had experienced domestic abuse. She was given an
exemption from the two-child limit under the rape clause because
the child was conceived by rape, so she was then awarded an extra
£237 a month. But then the benefit cap kicked in and she got only
£30 a month of it. Because she struggled to provide for her
children, she ended up returning to a violent relationship. I ask
the Minister again: what does he think about the impact of these
policies, not just their number?
(Con)
The noble Baroness makes a good point because we should be aware
of the impact, which is why we are working hard on a number of
initiatives. As she will know, there are a number of fallbacks on
top of this, particularly the provision of cost of living support
worth over £37 billion for 2022-23, including £400 for the
non-repayable discount to eligible households. However, it is
more than this. I am in awe of people on the front, including
those who work in the front line of the jobcentres, who work with
the social workers, and indeed with the Church, to see through
these very challenging issues for some families.
(LD)
My Lords, does the Minister agree that larger families on
benefits are doubly penalised by the Government’s policy, not
only by losing support for third or subsequent children but also
due to the lack of affordable childcare to enable them to work?
Those families are, in effect, losing £2,935 a year.
(Con)
I mentioned childcare costs before and it is important to support
parents who have childcare needs. Of course, we have the child
benefit but on top of that there are other support mechanisms to
ensure that those who have children—particularly more than two,
which is the subject of this Question—can survive and, in many
cases, find the next meal.
(CB)
My Lords, research has shown that the majority of children of
single parents would be lifted above the poverty line if the
absent fathers paid what they owe. For decades, the child
maintenance system has let single mothers down, condemned
children to poverty and let men get away with it. What is the
Minister’s advice?
(Con)
This is another important subject. The child maintenance system
supports separated parents to agree their own family-based
arrangements where it is possible. Where it is not possible, the
child maintenance system steps in. It is incredibly important
that the paying parent pays, and this is where the system is
dealing with some extremely challenging issues in order that the
receiving parent receives what they are due.
(Con)
My Lords, all noble Lords will be pleased that it is a small
number of families that are affected. Can the Minister inform us
whether any of those families are also being affected by having
to pay back money, such as aged debts, when they are on such
limited income? It has always struck me as rather odd since when
you get fined in a court, very careful consideration is given to
your means to pay, and if you borrow money from the Government
for your education, you are not asked to repay it until you are
earning a fair sum of money. The poorest in our society are being
asked to pay money back to the Government, so can the Minister
provide us with information on that?
(Con)
I will need to write to my noble friend about that issue. I am
certain that this system allows for payback whenever possible,
but I will certainly look into that.
(CB)
Can the Minister tell us when the special rules, which have
passed through Parliament, will come into force for people caring
for a terminally ill person at home, given that the cost of care
has gone up quite significantly and that if it is a young parent,
some people can find themselves in such poverty that they have to
go bankrupt?
(Con)
I do not have any information to hand on the future of any
legislation, but I will certainly follow up with the noble
Baroness and let her know whatever I have.
