Karin Smyth (Bristol South) (Lab) I beg to move, That this House
has considered Government support for apprenticeships. It is a
pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Hollobone. Parents
always want the best for their children, and parents across south
Bristol are no different. Like families the length and breadth of
the country, we want our children to succeed and have opportunities
to thrive. We want kids to have the best possible start in life
because we...Request free trial
(Bristol South) (Lab)
I beg to move,
That this House has considered Government support for
apprenticeships.
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Hollobone.
Parents always want the best for their children, and parents
across south Bristol are no different. Like families the length
and breadth of the country, we want our children to succeed and
have opportunities to thrive. We want kids to have the best
possible start in life because we know that when that happens,
their life chances for the years to follow are transformed for
the better.
Under this Government, young people are being let down. A lack of
investment in capital and social terms is not only harming
opportunities for them, but blocking a vital pipeline that helps
power everything from the NHS to business and research and
development. The Government’s approach to apprenticeships is a
case study in the very real damage that can be caused by
Government inaction and indifference.
During my time in the NHS, I became convinced that to grow and
develop our NHS, we needed to secure new ways of bringing talent
and skill into the workforce. We need to use every route open to
us and freshly chart some new ones to ensure that those who want
to start a career in the NHS are not just able to find one, but
actively encouraged to do so in a way that best suits them.
I represent communities in south Bristol that include thousands
of young people with talent, ideas and passion, but many are
among the least likely in the country to go to university. They
need pathways that can lead them to a secure job and a rewarding
career, just as our institutions and industry desperately need
the skills and capabilities young people bring to the workforce.
Apprenticeships can and should be an equally attractive option
for those who seek a career but choose not to pursue a university
degree.
(Havant) (Con)
The hon. Lady rightly says that young people often find the
choice between an apprenticeship and a university degree
challenging and compelling. Does she agree that a greater
promotion of level 3 advanced apprenticeships could be a good
compromise, because they lead to good qualifications in their own
right or to a degree apprenticeship?
I agree that degree apprenticeships are a good thing. I am more
concerned about levels 2 and 3 in my constituency, but I recently
spoke to graduates at the University of Exeter about health and
care. I was very proud to go down there before Christmas and
promote some of the great work that the university is doing on
that programme. I am certainly in favour of that, but I am
concerned about levels 2 and 3.
In the health and social care sectors, we need to confront the
scope and scale of the challenges faced by the NHS. Five years
ago, as a fairly new MP, I said that if the Government want to
increase the NHS workforce, nursing apprenticeships must be a
major line for new recruits.
(Chesterfield) (Lab)
I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend’s point about the value of
apprenticeships to the NHS. I asked the Government a question
about how much was unspent from the NHS apprenticeship levy fund
and I was told that that data is not held. Undoubtedly, millions
and millions of pounds are sat unspent in NHS funds and are being
sent back to the Treasury because of the lack of a functioning
apprenticeship programme.
That is a subject worthy of a debate on its own. I spoke to one
of the Minister’s predecessors, who was a nurse at one point,
about that very problem. It is a thorny issue, but it is
surmountable. We now have 130,000 vacancies. It is woeful and
shameful, but this is preventable, as it is for sectors beyond
the NHS. For example, if we are serious about tackling the
climate crisis with high-skilled green jobs, we must cultivate
the talents and skills of everyone to reach net zero. We cannot
rely on those with a degree; we need more people. We need our
education system to work for everyone and give people the options
and pathways that work for them. Right now, it does not.
Apprenticeships give people things they need for a career in a
way that no other path of study does. All of us are here today
because we agree with the fundamental premise that they are
flexible, agile, rooted in the real world and earned by
experience. Each year, I am proud to run my own annual
apprenticeships fair. A bit of a plug: my South Bristol Jobs and
Apprenticeships Fair will take place next month at the South
Bristol Skills Academy, which helps people in the area to match
their ambitions and experiences with the needs of local
businesses.
(Ynys Môn) (Con)
I thank the hon. Lady for securing this important debate and for
plugging her skills fair. I want to say a big thank you: diolch
yn fawr. I held Anglesey skills day here in Westminster and
businesses from all over Anglesey, including Babcock, Holyhead
Marine and Mona Lifting, came to support it, and there were lots
of apprentices from across the island. Does she agree that
apprenticeships can be a key way of giving our young people the
life skills with which to succeed?
I do. The fairs are uplifting experiences, and I am sorry that I
missed the hon. Lady’s fair. Young people and businesses are so
passionate about them, and I look forward to my seventh next
year. It will bring together those businesses, particularly small
businesses, that are desperately seeking new workers. In a
prosperous city such as Bristol, it should not be so hard to
match the desire and needs of businesses with the ambitions of
local people. The Government need to get a grip and develop a
proper plan to make apprenticeships work.
I know that the Minister has championed apprenticeships from his
very first speech in Parliament, and that he is as passionate
about the subject as I am. He was kind enough to visit my Bristol
South constituency in 2019. I take him at his word that he wants
to see more apprenticeships made available to more people, but he
is the eighth person to be the responsible Minister in the last
12 years. The brief that has been merged, renamed, repackaged and
passed around, I think, 13 times in the same period. His
Government simply have not done enough over the last 12 years;
the lack of focus has been matched only by the lack of funding.
Despite what we in this room think, apprenticeships are the
perennial afterthought. They are passed around in ministerial red
boxes like a game of educational pass the parcel. I know that the
Minister is happy to be left holding the prize, but that cannot
of itself make up for the neglect that the sector has suffered
under successive Governments for more than a decade. I am glad
that he is in his place for the debate, but he knows that the
Government need to do more. As he will have heard in his time as
Chair of the Education Committee, employers report increasing
skills shortages and decreasing numbers of young people leaving
education with the skills businesses need. The Government have no
plan to address that.
For all the Chancellor’s talk of skills, it is clear that under
the Conservative Government there has been a marked decline in
apprenticeship starts over the last 10 years. As a result, there
will be thousands of young people whose talent has been
squandered. I see that in my own constituency: 1,250 people
started an apprenticeship in Bristol South in 2011, but by
2019-20, that figure had dropped by 40%. It is not just in south
Bristol. Before the pandemic, apprenticeship starts were down 28%
across the country for under-19s, and £330 million of unspent
levy was sent back to the Treasury. Only one in five of the
promised 100,000 new apprenticeships were delivered. According to
Department for Education figures for the 2021-22 academic year,
apprenticeship starts are down again by 4.8% compared with
2018-19, and the number successfully completing their
apprenticeships has plummeted by 31.5%. Something is clearly very
wrong.
Answers from the Minister’s own Department show that the number
of young people not in education, employment or training is also
going up. This is a pattern of failure over a period of time, and
after 12 years the Government are clearly to blame. That is not a
surprise to the Minister; he is aware of all the problems and
challenges from the evidence given to the Select Committee. He
has also heard the cries from businesses about the apprenticeship
levy. Smaller businesses say that the new system has
“added to the barriers, complexity and cost of recruiting and
training staff.”
Larger businesses report that,
“the inflexibility of the system has made it difficult to spend
their levy funds…leaving less money available to pay for the
training people need.”
As my hon. Friend the Member for Chesterfield (Mr Perkins) said,
that is also writ large in the health service. As well
intentioned as the levy is—we are all very keen to support it and
make it work—it is clearly now broken. There are too few
apprenticeships available and too few small businesses, which are
the basis of my constituency, participating. Crucially, there are
nowhere near enough level 2 or level 3 apprenticeships on
offer.
I appreciate the work that has been done to improve the
flexibility of the transfer system, which is a point that I
raised with the then Minister in 2021. However, the numbers speak
for themselves, and we should be terrified by what they are
telling us. Some 12 months before the levy came into operation,
564,800 learners started an apprenticeship. A year later, that
number had fallen by over 200,000. In the last academic year, the
start rate was even lower. The figures are shameful. Some 200,000
potentially life-changing opportunities for young people—each one
a real person with a real contribution to make— no longer exist.
They are the people we see at apprenticeship fairs and the
families we talk to in our surgeries. The story is even grimmer
when we drill down and see 100,000 young people dropping out of
courses each year.
The evidence shows that a growing proportion of apprenticeships
are now being undertaken by older people, with businesses using
their levy funds to train staff who are already qualified or
established in their careers. That may be good, but it is not
what the levy was designed for and does not help a young person
to get that vital first foot on the employment ladder. It is not
just young people who face difficulty as a result of the
decisions of the Government. When the Minister was Chair of the
Education Committee, it pointed out that:
“More needs to be done to support adult learners with special
educational needs and disabilities”.
Again, I could not agree more.
The Minister will know that supported internships and
apprenticeships are a crucial piece of the puzzle when helping
learners with SEND to access work, but, to quote the Education
Committee,
“these opportunities are limited, and support funding is
insufficient.”
What did the Government plan to do about the crisis affecting
apprenticeships? They set a target to have 3 million
apprenticeships by 2020 in the 2015 Queen’s Speech—my first
Queen’s Speech as a Member of Parliament. However, we know that
apprenticeship starts have declined by over 40% since 2010. As
with so many of the Government’s targets, I am not sure that that
will ever be met.
The Government’s decision to put aside apprenticeships in the
Skills and Post-16 Education Act 2022 suggests that they have all
but given up on apprenticeships, and it tells me that the
Government have a woeful lack of ambition for our children and
young people. It was a missed opportunity for a Government who
have consistently failed to match the rhetoric with action. I
know that the Minister is an advocate of degree apprenticeships,
which combine paid work with part-time study—we also heard about
that from the hon. Member for Havant ()—and I was proud to talk to
students in Exeter recently. I was deeply impressed by their
tenacity and ambition. The Education Committee highlighted that
degree apprenticeships are crucial for boosting productivity and
widening access for students from disadvantaged backgrounds.
(South Ribble)
(Con)
I am listening intently to the hon. Lady’s structured analysis of
the current situation, although I do not agree with all of it. I
want to highlight the example of EnergyAce, a business in my
constituency. It is a family firm that designs and manufactures
innovative products that help firms use smaller amounts of
electricity. Young people in that business are going to the
University of Central Lancashire to do degree apprenticeships, to
increase the productivity of the business and to upskill small
and medium-sized enterprises, which we know are vital for growth
in the economy. They were particularly grateful for the opening
up of opportunities to upskill their workforce. They are still
relatively young—you and I, Mr Hollobone, would probably think
they are quite young people. Does the hon. Lady agree that it is
really important that, while we make sure there are quality
places in apprenticeships, we do not throw the baby out with the
bathwater on degree apprenticeships and the contribution they
have to make to growth in the SME sector?
I agree that degree apprenticeships have their place, but that is
not what the levy was for. As I have heard regularly in the
debates I have attended in the seven years for which I have been
in this place, our concern is for the small and medium-sized
enterprises in our constituencies that are finding the subject
really difficult to navigate. My constituents, who are among the
least likely in the country to go to university, need level 2 and
level 3 apprenticeships to help them up the ladder—I am
particularly keen on the ladder. I do not want to throw any
babies out with any bathwater—I am not sure where the bathwater
and the baby come into the debate—but we cannot lose one for the
sight of another, and a Government who were ambitious for
apprenticeships would be able to do both. The implementation of
lower-level apprenticeships has just been too slow. In my
constituency, they are often for people who have been let down by
the education system and who need to reach the first rung on the
ladder.
We have had some other things that I have tried to support, such
as the kickstart campaign—I do not know what has happened to
that—and I am looking forward to seeing the results of the fire
it up campaign. The Minister will know that I try to support all
schemes, regardless of party politics. I want whatever works, and
I will try to make anything work. We need to turn the tide on the
catalogue of failures that have become so synonymous with the
Government’s strategies for apprenticeships. I am not overly
confident, but I am hopeful that we can do something better. I am
obviously more hopeful about the next Labour Government, and I am
sure my hon. Friend the Member for Chesterfield will outline our
approach.
We cannot level up without skilling up. Transforming the failed
apprenticeship levy and creating what we have called a growth and
skills levy will give businesses the flexibility they need to
train their workforce and create opportunities that will drive
growth across every region of our country and in every sector of
our economy. I am sure my hon. Friend would not mind if the
Government stole that idea—they can crack on with that if they
would like to. We want to unlock Britain’s potential, and people
need a solid foundation in education and a chance to succeed to
do that.
Having security at work and investing in apprenticeships and
training opportunities enables people who want the chance to
reskill, all of which will help people into high-quality jobs.
What we talk about as a green prosperity plan—again, pinch
it—will create a million good jobs in industries and businesses
in all parts of the country, underpinned by new apprenticeships
in the technology sector that will be vital in meeting our net
zero commitments. That is the new building in my constituency
that the Minister came to see. That is what we want to be looking
at: the jobs of the future.
It is clear that the potential for improving our apprenticeship
system in the UK is huge. I continue to hope that is the case. I
hope that through the debate, apprenticeships are given the
prominence they deserve and the help they need, and I hope the
Minister will use his time to confirm that even as the eighth
Minister at the tail end of a Government fast running out of
ideas and time, he will ensure a proper focus on skills and
apprenticeships within the Government to ensure our country and
our economy have the skills for the future.
Can the Minister outline the immediate actions he and his
officials will take to drastically improve the quality of
apprenticeships and curb that terrible drop-out rate? I sincerely
wish to hear how the long-awaited review of the levy is going and
what actions the Government will take. I am sure he will agree,
as the former Chair of the Select Committee, that more funding is
needed for supported apprenticeships and special educational
needs and disabilities. Perhaps he can use his appearance today
to surprise us all. Given his personal support for degree
apprenticeships, can he outline what the Government will do to
ensure faster implementation of the programme? Finally, it would
make me very happy if the Minister were to announce, here and
now, the use of apprenticeships to increase the NHS
workforce.
The legacy of the Government is not good. Amidst the wreckage,
good ideas remain and with good people like the Minister, who
have a genuine belief in the transformative nature of
apprenticeships, I hope we can move forward so that no other
young person has their future scuppered for, frankly, no good
reason.
(in the Chair)
The debate can last until 5.30 pm. There are seven Members
standing, six of whom have had the courtesy to inform the Chair
that they wish to speak. To get everybody in, there will be a
time limit of three and a half minutes with no interventions.
4.42pm
(Stoke-on-Trent North)
(Con)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Hollobone.
I congratulate the hon. Member for Bristol South () on securing this important
debate.
I am proud to stand here as the co-chair of the all-party
parliamentary group on apprenticeships. I am even prouder to
stand here and say that I am the employer of not one, but two
fantastic apprentices in Stoke-on-Trent North, Kidsgrove and
Talke. Jess is about to sit her exams—only next month. I will not
wish her the best of luck because I always believe that if
someone does the hard work, they will pass the test. She has
certainly done the work, so I am sure the test will go through.
Then Mya will start with me on 1 February. Jess was 17 years old
and Mya is 18 years old. This is a fantastic opportunity for
young people to get that important level 3 qualification when
they did not feel college was the right option and wanted to earn
and learn.
I cannot agree more with the hon. Member for Bristol South on the
point about the fact that although degree apprenticeships are
important, we also need that ladder of opportunity—I know the
Minister was keen on that phrase when I served with him on the
Education Select Committee—and we need to offer those level 2 and
3 opportunities, particularly in areas of deprivation where there
are people who may not have a formal qualification. In
Stoke-on-Trent North, 12% of my workforce do not have any
qualifications at all, which is 8% higher than the national
average. Level 2 is the first rung on that ladder.
We should do everything we can to accelerate all the way up
degree apprenticeships, but we have to build people’s confidence
and self-esteem and build people up with the skills to go through
the courses at the different stages so they are equipped and
ready. It is a bit like when I was in teaching, with the
grandmother effect: it is all very well making sure we are
supportive and help in every way we can, but if we undermine that
process, that could be a problem.
In Stoke-on-Trent North, Kidsgrove and Talke we have had 13,240
apprenticeships start up since May 2020. I want to congratulate
Stoke-on-Trent College for its fantastic work. I partner with the
college when it comes to my apprentices. It will also deliver
T-levels from the start of this year, alongside the City of
Stoke-on-Trent Sixth Form College, which was an early up-taker of
the digital T-levels that began in 2020, with 55 students to
date.
Ultimately, there are things that need to happen. We have seen
that drop in level 2 take-up, which some recent reports suggest
is at 60%—the last was from March 2021. We need to address and
work with our local colleges on that. I am delighted that we will
see Ofsted inspecting training providers and holding them
accountable for the quality of training. EDSK said that the lack
of quality training throughout their apprenticeship forces out
half of those who drop out. We need to make sure that employers
are being held accountable for their work.
When I see £3.3 billion in the levy pot being returned to
Treasury, it does not half make me shudder. That £3.3 billion
could be invested not just in young people but in older people as
well, and not only in upskilling the current workforce, as my
hon. Friend the Member for South Ribble () pointed out, but in
making sure young people get that opportunity too.
We need much more flexibility with the levy pot. I am not asking
to simply open it up, but for us to allow employers to use a
small percentage of it to invest in mileage, training or
administrative staff to undertake what can be a bureaucratic
process, and for an amount to be ringfenced specifically for
young people. Apprenticeships are the best way to level up our
great country, and I hope to see how the Government will develop
them to make that happen.
(in the Chair)
I will call , who has kindly informed me that he will take an
intervention. By law, the time limit has to increase by a minute,
so could the hon. Gentleman please finish his speech a minute
early?
4.45pm
(Strangford) (DUP)
I asked permission, Mr Hollobone, in order to allow my hon.
Friend the Member for East Londonderry (Mr Campbell) the chance
to speak.
I congratulate the hon. Member for Bristol South () on leading the debate. Not
long ago, I spoke in this Chamber in a Backbench Business debate
on labour skills and shortages to highlight the importance of a
sustainable and efficient apprenticeship programme for young
people across the UK, so I am in full support of having more
Government funding for apprenticeships, as the hon. Lady
mentioned. I believe apprentices should be valued for their work,
along with being paid equally and fairly.
It is always encouraging to see young people wanting to take up a
skill, whether in mechanics, plumbing, the food industry or
electrics. They are willing to devote their time, despite not
receiving a great wage, to advance their skills and learn in
combination with courses at technical college, such as the one in
Newtownards, which is well used.
Mr (East Londonderry)
(DUP)
Does my hon. Friend agree that the unit being built in Coleraine,
the £40 million Northern Regional College, will offer that type
of facility? Such colleges are much needed, particularly in areas
of high deprivation.
I certainly do agree. My hon. Friend and I both have colleges in
our constituencies that do marvellous work, and we want to
commend them. I look forward to hearing the Minister’s response.
This Minister understands the issues very well and brings a
wealth of willingness into his answers.
A constituent, who was recently in my office with his
grandfather, took up an apprenticeship with a motor parts
company. He was due to be paid by the employer to attend college
one day a week, but he was never paid for that day. He has now
been told by the Labour Relations Agency that he has no basis to
claim that money back as he left the company more than three
months ago. My constituent was unaware of that as it was not in
his contract and, to this day, has not received the money he was
owed for his one day a week at the technical college. What sort
of employer would take that money off him? It is a clear example
of young people doing their best to learn a trade and adapt to
the world of work, but not getting their fair chance.
UKHospitality got in touch with me about those issues ahead of
the debate. It states that reconsidering the working of the
apprenticeship levy would help to ease the staffing crisis,
benefiting employers, employees and the wider community. I
support apprenticeships as a means of recruitment, retention and
boosting productivity. It is important to acknowledge that some
young people do not see university or further education as a way
to advance themselves, but they do see the skills that could be
learned through an apprenticeship. I sit on the board of
governors for Glastry College. Some students come through who
will never be educational achievers; they were always going to be
guys who could do apprenticeships, boys who could get their hands
dirty and make things happen. We have to look after them. The
debate is about that and the hon. Member for Bristol South
deserves great credit for bringing it forward, as I am sure many
hon. Members will say.
In conclusion, such people would rather learn a trade and dive
straight into the world of work and our education system should
encourage that. I know the Minister agrees, as he has always said
that in response my questions. Schools should offer pupils more
support on the options they have, and that should start with us
in Parliament giving our schools the funding and opportunities to
do that.
4.49pm
(West Dorset) (Con)
I appreciate the opportunity to speak, Mr Hollobone. I
congratulate the hon. Member for Bristol South () on securing this particularly
important debate. The Government have invested, and continue to
invest, a lot of money in apprenticeships, as is clear from the
increase in funding to £2.7 billion until 2024-25. It is also
clear that the demand for apprenticeships has increased, with an
8.6% rise.
I am here to make the case for land-based colleges and land-based
apprenticeships. I am afraid that, in the wider debate, they are
not always prioritised. We know that full well in West Dorset,
where I have Kingston Maurward College, one of the best
land-based colleges in the country. It serves very well not only
West Dorset but Dorset more widely. While there has been an
increase in funding overall, I am afraid that is not quite
happening for land-based colleges in the way I would like it
to.
For example, the stockperson apprenticeship for those who look
after animals—particularly cattle—was previously funded at
£10,000 per apprentice per annum. It was removed by the Institute
for Apprenticeships and Technical Education and replaced by the
general farm worker apprenticeship, but funded at half the
price—£5,000. It does not take a genius to work out that that is
pushing finances into a very difficult place, especially when 20%
of the £5,000 is reserved until the scheme is completed. That has
meant that, in the last couple of weeks, Kingston Maurward
College has terminated the apprenticeship. Frankly, that has been
devastating to the farming community in my constituency and the
surrounding area.
I am conscious of the limited time I have to speak, but I hope
the Minister will take the point away and hear loud and clear
that land-based colleges are important—even more so given the
need to produce food here and to achieve sustainability. It is
not acceptable that we have seen a whole course of
apprenticeships close. I hope the Minister will see what else he
can do. As it stands, it is not just this past year that has
finished; the course has been terminated. It is my absolute
mission to return that course to Kingston Maurward College, and I
hope that the Minister will support me in doing so.
4.52pm
(Weaver Vale) (Lab)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Hollobone.
I pay credit to my hon. Friend the Member for Bristol South
() for bringing this debate alive
with such passion and insight. I am especially pleased to speak
because this subject is close to my heart, as I know it is for
Members across the Chamber, regardless of our political
affiliations. Way back in the past, I was a careers adviser and a
Connexions manager, and this was something I always drove forward
in the communities I worked in, to ensure that young people made
an impartial and realistic careers decision about the plethora of
things available to them.
Sadly, I fear that there is still a stigma about apprenticeships,
and it is our job collectively to tackle that, whether under this
Government or those of tomorrow. There has been an over-emphasis
on academia and university for a considerable number of years,
and under successive Governments—I will not just pin the blame on
the current Government. That has meant lost opportunities for
young people, and it has certainly reduced the skills base in our
country, our communities and our economy.
The answers are staring us in the face, in the form of the models
that some of our European neighbours, including Germany and
Austria, have employed over a considerable number of years. I am
pleased to say that some of that learning has been implemented by
both the current Government and past Governments. I welcome level
3, level 4 and level 5 advanced apprenticeships, and giving
working class children and young people the opportunity not to
come out of university with an incredible amount of debt but to
get real, skilled apprenticeships in industry. As my hon. Friend
the Member for Bristol South said, where there is a significant
weakness is with level 2 apprenticeships. As the Minister knows,
there is a huge underspend of close to £2 billion from the levy.
The levy is a very good idea in principle, but that money should
be focused on level 2 provision.
For some time now, employers have been calling out for some
flexibility with the levy. The Government have moved slightly
forward in that area, but nowhere near enough. My hon. Friend the
Member for Chesterfield (Mr Perkins), Labour’s Front-Bench
representative in this debate, has proposed a levy that is about
apprenticeships and skills. The Minister should steal that
idea—it is a good idea and it would be a sensible thing to do.
That levy would drive forward opportunities for young people,
particularly those from low-income backgrounds who may not
actually want to go to university—there has been far too much
emphasis on that—and it would be good for those young people, for
our communities and for our economy.
4.55pm
(Meon Valley) (Con)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Hollobone,
and I congratulate the hon. Member for Bristol South () on securing this important
debate.
Apprenticeships are a vital part of building our skills base, and
they are a success, bringing huge benefits to industry and to
people completing their education. Some 860 people in my
constituency of Meon Valley started an apprenticeship last year,
and I have met many of them in my work with businesses of all
sizes. I have always been impressed by their drive and
commitment, and I want more young people to access that career
route. We are fortunate to have great employers in and around my
constituency taking on apprentices, such as Safran Helicopter
Engines and BAE Systems, and recruiters such as Alderwood and
Gattaca that are working hard to help employers plug their skills
gaps. Those gaps are real, and I hear about them from employers
of all sizes.
My big concern is to ensure that the apprenticeship levy is spent
in the right way, and that smaller companies can benefit. We want
businesses to see training and apprenticeships as an investment,
not a cost. The cumulative underspend in levy funding since 2019
is over £2 billion. That is mostly made up of some very big
numbers from previous years; last year, the underspend was around
£11 million. However, I know from talking to small and
medium-sized enterprises that those companies are not aware of
how the apprenticeship levy can help them—yet it is those smaller
companies that are having to work hardest to recruit skilled
staff.
As we get close to spending the entire budget, we will need to
make sure that we are prioritising the right kinds of
apprenticeships. It is fine to use levy funding to support
higher-level qualifications such as masters of business
administration at Cranfield University, but young people starting
out in industry also need good access to opportunities to learn
key skills. I am pleased by the Government’s support for
apprenticeships through initiatives such as the DFE’s unit for
future skills, which has started to analyse and share data on
skills gaps and opportunities. What gets measured gets done, so I
hope that leads to a big boost in the number of
apprenticeships.
In particular, I hope that support for science, technology,
engineering and maths careers will be boosted by a new university
technical college in the Solent region. I know that the DFE is
looking at that, with a bid from UTC Portsmouth for a new UTC in
Southampton. Many students in Meon Valley are looking for a UTC
place, and it is the excellence of the UTC in Portsmouth and its
partnership with industry that drives that demand. We need more
of that kind of capacity for young people, to open up careers for
them and fill the gaps in skills. At present, 50% of leavers from
UTC Portsmouth go on to apprenticeships, so we need to expand
that model. I look forward to hearing from the Minister how we
are going to expand the apprenticeship programme.
4.58pm
(Crewe and Nantwich)
(Con)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Hollobone,
and I pay tribute to the hon. Member for Bristol South () for securing the debate. I
want to use it as an opportunity to champion and sing the praises
of people who have been involved in delivering apprenticeships in
my constituency. As others have said, for too long, young people
felt that the only way into a high-paying, high-skilled job was
to get an academic qualification. We have been able to change
that message, and I hear from constituents that they now
understand the issue better.
Thanks to the collective efforts of all those involved, some of
whom I will mention, more than 12,000 people in Crewe and
Nantwich have begun an apprenticeship since 2010. I want
particularly to pick up and pay tribute to some of the comments
that have been made about the importance of UTCs, because the
ladder of skills really should start pre-apprenticeships. Having
a technical college in my constituency means that young people
learn from early on that hands-on, technical qualifications are a
route forward that builds into an apprenticeship. I am delighted
that the UTC has expanded recently. I am always encouraging young
people in the area, who perhaps do not want to make the change
because it is mid-year and mid-way through their secondary school
time, to do so, because I know from speaking to young people who
go to the UTC what a great change it is for them, and it builds
towards apprenticeships for them.
Another important provider locally is South Cheshire College,
which I am pleased to say was recently awarded Institute of
Technology status, with additional funding, which will enhance
its role. I am delighted that I have an apprentice in my office—I
know that other Members do too—who comes from South Cheshire
College. The college has a whole variety of apprenticeships,
which support young people and employers in the local area. There
are some really fantastic employers delivering apprenticeships
locally, including Bentley, which is not only a sponsor of the
UTC but has its own apprenticeships. I have had the pleasure of
meeting it, at first virtually during lockdown. Hearing
individuals’ stories makes us realise that it can be just a
momentary thing that gets them on track for an apprenticeship. I
remember one young girl in particular talking about just seeing a
poster about apprenticeships in the library at school, which got
her thinking about doing one. The apprentices at Alstom will soon
be working on the bogies for HS2; that contract has been awarded
in Crewe. They are another fantastic example of the opportunities
that apprenticeships can bring to people.
Like other Members, I have been told by some employers about
difficulties with flexibility on apprenticeships. If anyone is
well placed to take forward the feedback that we have heard
today, it is the Minister, who we all know has a long track
record of supporting apprenticeships.
I will finish by highlighting a few fantastic ambassadors for
apprenticeships. These are the finalists for apprentice of the
year in the South Cheshire Chamber of Commerce business awards:
Connor Smith from South Cheshire College; Mia Jennings from
Everybody Health & Leisure; Matilda Turner from Mental Health
Charter; Kathryn Bennett from Mid Cheshire Hospitals; Adam
Simcock from WR Partners; and, last but not least, the winner of
the category, Joshua Hallam, who was an apprentice with Amplo
Group. All those individuals are fantastic ambassadors for what
one can get out of life by choosing an apprenticeship. I
encourage as many people as possible to think about that as a way
forward for them and their family members.
5.01pm
(Gloucester) (Con)
I am grateful to the hon. Member for Bristol South () for securing this debate on
apprenticeships, although she will not mind me saying that she
paints a picture that I do not entirely recognise. It is a great
pleasure to be here with two colleagues—one of whom is the
Minister—who employ their own apprentices, as I do. It will be
interesting to hear from the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for
Chesterfield (), how many Labour MPs employ
their own apprentices. As he knows so well from the tennis court,
there is a difference between talking a good game and playing
one.
Let me pay tribute to the 14,000 apprentices who have started or
completed—most have completed—an apprenticeship in Gloucester
since 2010. That is a run rate almost three times the pace of the
previous Labour Government, and it reflects new apprenticeships
at places such as the cathedral’s masons’ shop, Punchline
magazine, the Robinswood golf club, Hazlewoods accountants, GCHQ
and many other employers, who frankly never had the opportunity
to take apprentices before 2010, since when the scope has been
hugely widened. In addition, our NHS acute hospitals trust has
taken on almost 100 nursing associates for higher apprenticeships
since nursing associate qualifications were introduced by this
Government.
As I have hinted, apprenticeships are not an abstract affair for
me. I asked the Government to increase their new commitment to
additional apprenticeships in May 2010, before making my maiden
speech—those were the first words I spoke in Parliament. I hired
my first apprentice later that year, and I have done so every
year since. I pay tribute to all of them: my first, Laura
Pearsall—now Brooker—became the youngest ever Gloucester City
Council councillor at 21; Aisha has become a team leader in the
Home Office; Katie works with our mental health trust; and others
work with a charity and the county council. My current
apprentice, Mia, is South West Apprentice Ambassador Network
apprentice ambassador of the year. All have done great work for
our city and my constituents in Gloucester, while getting a level
3 in business admin—precisely the issue that the hon. Member for
Bristol South is focused on. In the run-up to National
Apprenticeship Week, I commend the opportunity to colleagues on
both sides of the House.
I have a few quick suggestions for the Minister, with whom I have
worked on apprenticeships for almost 13 years. Schools need to
invite back more alumni who are apprentices to give their current
pupils an idea of what apprenticeships are all about. There are
some really good general training providers, such as
Gloucestershire College, and great specialist providers, such as
Gloucestershire Engineering Training. We MPs need to work with
all of them and to persuade smaller companies that
apprenticeships are not a bureaucratic affair but an investment,
as others have rightly pointed out.
The apprenticeship levy has been much discussed today. It works
for many, but not for all. There are some specialist courses that
have not been structured as apprenticeships; for example,
spectacle-makers’ qualifications have been, but those for
construction and timber merchants have not yet been. There is
also a real demand for cyber apprenticeships, but a shortage of
teachers. Will the Government consider working more closely with
the National Cyber Security Centre on how we can find more people
to teach artificial intelligence and cyber apprenticeships?
As we come, at the end of this year, to the conversion of the
first ever department store in Britain—a former Debenhams—into
the University of Gloucestershire’s new city campus, will my
right hon. Friend the Minister consider coming to Gloucester in
early 2024 to visit our nursing associate higher apprentices?
5.06pm
(Chesterfield) (Lab)
It is a great pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr
Hollobone.
As others have done, I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for
Bristol South () on securing this debate. It is
obviously on an issue that is of tremendous importance to a lot
of us, and with National Apprenticeship Week approaching in early
February, the timing could not be better.
Labour believes that apprenticeships are the gold standard in
skills development, and we would seek to increase both the number
and the quality of apprenticeship opportunities under a future
Labour Government, as well as promoting apprenticeships to
students, workers, parents and employers
I always say that the greatest advocates for apprenticeship
opportunities are apprentices themselves. When I meet them, they
often say how grateful they are for their opportunity and how
glad they are that they have taken the apprenticeship path.
However, I also often reflect, as other hon. Members have already
done today, on how little apprenticeships seem to be talked about
in schools, so it is important that we make sure everyone knows
that these opportunities are there.
In the last year, I have visited outstanding independent
providers, such as Remit Training in Derby, where I saw its
superb automotive academy, and I have also seen the construction
academy at Skills People Group in Rotherham. In addition, I have
been pleased to see excellent provision at further education
colleges.
As many other Members have said, apprenticeships are vital for
social mobility and are genuinely transformative. We recognise
the important role that apprentices play and want to see more
young people having the opportunity to take an
apprenticeship.
My hon. Friend the Member for Bristol South spoke about the
importance of public sector apprenticeships. As I said a minute
ago, there is far too little focus on a strategic opportunity
that exists, particularly within our health sector but across the
public sector, to expand the usage of the apprenticeship levy
within that sector. She also spoke about how difficult it is for
local businesses to become involved in offering apprenticeships.
I am told by some of the apprenticeship providers that as much as
50% of their budget is spent not on teaching the apprenticeship
but on administering it, which is a crazy system.
Many Government Members are keen to suggest that colleagues in
Europe are overly bureaucratic. Let me tell them that there is
not a single bureaucrat in Brussels who could have imagined the
barriers that have been placed in front of apprenticeships
here.
My hon. Friend the Member for Bristol South also reflected on the
fact that the Minister—the Minister of State, Department for
Education, the right hon. Member for Harlow (), for whom my hon. Friend and
I both have great respect—is the eighth different Skills Minister
in the past 13 years. Indeed, he is the fourth that I have the
privilege of shadowing in the three short years that I have been
in my current role. My hon. Friend also spoke powerfully about
the fact that too much of the apprenticeship levy is being spent
at levels 6 and 7, which is a theme I will return to.
The hon. Member for Strangford () spoke about young people who do not see university
as being for them, and he is absolutely right in that regard.
However, it is important that we do not see apprenticeships as a
second-class option. Apprenticeships are a great opportunity for
straight-A students as well as for those who have other talents.
Although he is absolutely right that we should always promote
that alternative to university, it is very important that we do
not see it as a second-rate option.
The hon. Member for West Dorset () referred the Government’s
involvement in apprenticeships and the fact that the number of
people doing apprenticeships is lower than it was before the
introduction of the levy. He also spoke powerfully about the
bureaucratic barriers to land-based apprenticeships and the
importance of them in his constituency.
I do not think I quite said that there was a decrease in the
demand for apprenticeships or the actual apprenticeships taking
place. I just want to correct the hon. Gentleman on that point.
Funding for land-based apprenticeships had reduced to the extent
to which the schemes were no longer viable.
Mr Perkins
I accept the hon. Gentleman’s point. He has corrected me on what
he said, but it is none the less the case that fewer
apprenticeships are now being provided across the board than
before the introduction of the levy. Whether he said it or not,
it was none the less factually correct.
My hon. Friend the Member for Weaver Vale () reflected, as he has done
previously, on his own history as a careers adviser. He knows the
importance of independent face-to-face careers guidance, which is
one reason why the Labour party has made that such a priority.
Other Members reflected on the fact that businesses and other
apprenticeship suppliers are unable to get into schools. That is
why, during the passage of the Skills and Post-16 Education Act
2022, we were keen to see the Baker clause introduced in another
place. That would have meant that each student had three
opportunities to see the alternatives to going to school sixth
form. We think that independent careers guidance will play a
really important role in that.
The hon. Member for Meon Valley (Mrs Drummond) said that many
small businesses cannot access the levy. She is absolutely right.
When the apprenticeship levy was introduced, an increased fund
came in from the levy payers, but at the same time the Government
massively reduced the amount they spent on apprenticeships. The
result was that those that do not pay the levy are shut out. The
Government are now allowing major businesses that pay the levy to
donate some of their levy funds to their suppliers and others on
a charitable basis, but it needs to be much more strategic than
that.
The hon. Member for Crewe and Nantwich (Dr Mullan) spoke about
the importance of pre-apprenticeship vocational opportunities. He
is absolutely right. Labour will look to push the skills and
growth levy towards traineeship and pre-apprenticeship
opportunities, and allow businesses to use their levy in that
way.
The hon. Member for Gloucester () was characteristically
optimistic. He dismissed the fact that there are fewer
apprenticeships than before. He said he has met employers who
speak positively about apprenticeship opportunities, and he is
absolutely right. He said that many employers never had the
opportunity to offer apprenticeships before, but the reality is
that the funding for apprenticeships was there. The Government
have a different way of approaching it. We think there are many
failings with that, and we are not alone on that. He also asked
about how many Labour MPs employ apprentices. I do, and I am
informed that my hon. Friend the Member for Weaver Vale does too,
but I am afraid I have not done an audit beyond that. He spoke
about the importance of businesses and suppliers getting into
schools.
rose—
Mr Perkins
I want to give the Minister enough time to wind up, but I will
allow the hon. Gentleman to intervene very quickly.
That is kind of the hon. Gentleman. I mentioned all those
organisations because those apprenticeships did not exist until
we introduced the specific categories for them—accountancy,
stonemasonry and all the rest of it. They did not exist before
2010.
Mr Perkins
Okay. I thank the hon. Gentleman for that clarification.
Britain is not alone in having a skills or apprenticeship levy,
but the way we handle it is quite unique. As a result, there has
been a dramatic fall in the number of entry-level apprenticeship
opportunities. Research by the London Progression Collaboration
shows that since 2014-15, entry-level apprenticeships have fallen
by 72%, and the fall in apprenticeships for under-19s has been as
much as 59%, depriving many of those at greatest risk of falling
into poverty from the opportunity at the beginning of their
careers to get an apprenticeship.
The latest figures show that £3.3 billion in levy funds have been
returned to the Treasury in the last three years. It is not only
a scandal, but a huge act of collective self-harm. It is no
wonder that the CIPD said:
“Apprenticeship Levy has failed on every measure and will
undermine investment in skills and economic recovery without
significant reform”.
I meet so many small business owners who would be keen to take on
an apprentice, but are put off by the lack of available support
and the bureaucracy.
There is a stark contrast between this Government’s approach and
the approach of the Labour Government in Wales. My colleagues in
Wales have led the way in creating apprenticeship opportunities,
ringfencing an additional £18 million of funding to be invested
in apprenticeships in the coming financial year. In a recent
report, the renowned think-tank EDSK argued for the need to
expand the traineeship programme to promote the supply of
entry-level opportunities and clear progression routes into
genuinely high-quality apprenticeships. After the Government’s
recent announcements, which set out that they are seeking to
reduce the number of traineeships —I have spoken today to an
employer who told me that they will have to abandon traineeships
because of the Government’s current change—
(in the Chair)
Order. The hon. Gentleman has had 10 minutes; the Minister needs
at least 10 minutes to respond, so he needs to draw his remarks
to a close pretty soon.
Mr Perkins
I was just coming to the crescendo, Mr Hollobone. As I say, those
from small towns or villages are less likely to find
apprenticeships available. Those from black and ethnic minority
backgrounds are less likely to be able to access an
apprenticeship.
In conclusion, a Labour Government will take a fresh approach. We
will ensure that all funds allocated for skills are spent on
skills and that apprenticeships are promoted to all and
recognised as outstanding opportunities for young people, with
more SMEs supported to offer them and more colleges equipped to
teach them.
5.16pm
The Minister of State, Department for Education ()
It is a pleasure to serve under you, Mr Hollobone. I congratulate
the hon. Member for Bristol South () who spoke thoughtfully. I
obviously do not agree with everything she said, and I will set
out why in my remarks, but I was pleased when in my last
iteration—I do not know if she was including me as one of the
eight Ministers from when I was last in this post—I went with her
to the City of Bristol College’s South Bristol Skills Academy. It
was a wonderful visit. She is a true champion of apprenticeships
and I pay tribute to her. I was glad to hear that this debate was
taking place.
The hon. Member set out a bleak picture, which I do not think was
fair. We have had over 5 million apprentices since 2010. We know
that 92% of those who complete their apprenticeships go on to a
job or further training. The amount of apprenticeship starts
increased by 8.6% last year. Of course, it did go down during the
covid years and she talked very importantly about level 2 and 3.
Of all starts in 2021-22, 70% were at level 2 and 3.
She also asked about social justice. She will know that we offer
a £1,000 bursary for care leavers. If employers with fewer than
50 employees employ a young person, they get £1,000 and we pay
all the training costs. We pay 95% of the training costs of all
small businesses anyway.
She talked about healthcare apprentices. There are 65 standards
in health and 20 in nursing. There is now a complete apprentice
pathway from entry to postgraduate and advanced clinical practice
in nursing. There are 82 health and science apprenticeship
standards and we are working very closely with the Department of
Health and Social Care to try to improve those. It is always
difficult when different professions measure qualifications in
different ways, but I am proud that we have nursing degree
apprentices. I am proud that we have policing degree
apprentices.
On her point about degree apprentices, I disagree with her a
little, because they are my two favourite words in the English
language. We saw an increase of 47,000 degree apprenticeships
last year—I think over 140,000 since they were introduced in
2014-15. I think that they answer a lot of problems. They deal
with the loan problem for disadvantaged students, they mean
students can earn while they learn and they build the prestige of
skills, which is incredibly important. She mentioned the
University of Exeter, which was my old university. One of the
proudest things I have ever done as an MP was go to back to that
university, which is in the Russell Group, and speak at its
degree apprenticeships ceremony. I am very glad that she went
there.
I will briefly respond to some of my colleagues who have spoken
today. My hon. Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent North () always speaks
passionately about this subject. To be clear on the levy funding,
of course there have been underspends in the past, but in
2021-22, 99.6% of the levy budget was spent. That point is
important because it was raised by a number of other hon.
Members.
The hon. Member for Strangford () also spoke passionately about the subject. He talked
about careers. He will know that we strengthened the Baker
clause. The shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Chesterfield (Mr
Perkins), also talked about that. I fought for it as a Back
Bencher and as Chair of the Education Committee. Students will
now have six encounters—two a year—with key apprentice
organisations. The hon. Member for Weaver Vale () also spoke about that.
My hon. Friend the Member for West Dorset () spoke about land-based
colleges. I am a passionate supporter of land colleges. I went to
one in my area near Enfield a few years ago, and I hope to go to
many more in my job. I know he wants me to visit his land
college, and I would be delighted to. I will consider the things
he said, but I have already asked officials to look at the issue.
I know he was trying to get in at Education questions earlier.
Can he leave it with me to try to get officials to work with the
college to deal with some of the funding issues?
(Central Suffolk and North Ipswich) (Con)
The Minister will recognise that in constituencies such as mine
in Suffolk, one in seven jobs are linked to the land economy,
agriculture, food and drink or the supply chain. Apprenticeships
linked to the land economy are particularly important. Although
we have seen an uplift more generally in Suffolk in the number of
apprenticeships available, that has not been the case for the
land economy. I have raised that with his predecessors in similar
debates. They promised they would go away and look at it, and
nothing has really happened. I would be grateful if the Minister
wrote to us at some point to outline what steps he is trying to
take to bring about that step change in apprenticeship
opportunities in the land economy.
I was talking about land colleges with officials earlier in the
week. I am also of the view that they have an important part in
green skills, net zero and all those areas. I promise to go back
and work with officials on land colleges to find out the
situation across the country, not just in Dorset or in my hon.
Friend’s constituency, and I will come back to him. I cannot
promise policy solutions straight away, but I will do my best to
take it back and deal with it. I hope that my hon. Friend is
satisfied with that.
My hon. Friend the Member for Gloucester (), with his new, much
deserved honour, talked about digital skills and cyber-warfare.
There are huge amounts going on with that, and huge amounts of
new standards. The new institutes of technology are being rolled
out around the country. There will be 21 institutes all together;
there are 12 already. We are investing £290 million. Many of them
will deal with the kind of digital skills that he was talking
about.
The hon. Member for Weaver Vale talked about the levy underspend.
I repeat that we spent 99.6% of our levy. He is also passionate
about careers—I am completely with him on that—and we have talked
about that previously in the House. To my hon. Friend the Member
for Meon Valley, I repeat that 70% of apprentices in the past
year were level 2 and level 3. She knows that I am supportive of
UTCs. They are the responsibility of , but I will do all that I
can to support them. My hon. Friend talked about STEM; I think
there are over 300 STEM apprentice standards.
I think that I have answered most of my colleagues. My passion is
improving quality, which is incredibly important. We moved from
frameworks to standards to ensure that an apprenticeship was a
proper profession and was recognised by employers. We created an
employer-led system, which is working. Ofsted will inspect every
single provider by 2025. We have also asked every apprentice
provider to register as an apprenticeship training providers. We
now have much more intervention with employers, providers and
apprentices, whom we support all the way through to ensure that
we increase quality.
On careers, I mentioned the Baker clause, but we also have a
scheme called apprenticeship support and knowledge in schools and
colleges—the ASK programme. That has gone to 685,000 students
last year, and it is supported by £3.2 million of funding. We are
trying to do everything possible. Transforming careers in our
country will be the thing that increases starts. I am doing a lot
of work in the Department on how we do careers. I mentioned the
92% of apprentices who go into work or further training.
I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Crewe and Nantwich
(Dr Mullan) on all his award winners. We are also making the levy
more flexible, with flexi-job apprenticeships. We are spending a
separate £8 million on degree apprenticeships, and I mentioned
disadvantage. I congratulate the hon. Member for Bristol South on
her apprentice fair. I have my apprentice fair in Harlow on
Friday, and I hope that every Member here and across the House
takes part in National Apprentice Week so that we can ensure that
every young person and adult has a chance of climb the apprentice
skills ladder of opportunity.
5.26pm
It has been an enjoyable debate. As ever, we learn so much from
each other’s constituencies: about the variety of land-based
apprenticeships, which I do not have many of, about towns and
cities, and about Northern Ireland. There were helpful comments
about training providers, which we did not get a chance to talk
to, getting rid of stigma and so on, all of which I agree
with.
In painting my picture, I got all my statistics from the
Department for Education’s website, the Library and so on. That
is the picture, and we need to own it before we try to improve
it. I want properly resourced and well-managed apprenticeships. I
see them as a silver bullet that does not simply resolve the
practical problems but makes a lasting, positive difference to
apprentices and the places in which they work. That is what we
want to see. I need the Government to do better, and I hope that
some of the contributions to today’s debate will start us on that
journey. I wish everyone good luck with their apprenticeship
fairs; everyone needs to come to mine in Bristol South in
February.
Question put and agreed to.
Resolved,
That this House has considered Government support for
apprenticeships.
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