Asked by
To ask His Majesty’s Government whether they intend to review the
skills and experience required for the role of Chair of the
Social Mobility Commission, following the resignation of the
previous chair.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for
Levelling Up, Housing & Communities () (Con)
My Lords, leadership of the Social Mobility Commission requires a
strong understanding of, and a demonstrated commitment to, the
cause of social mobility, particularly in education and business.
We sought a chair with excellent leadership and persuasive
communication skills. Both Katharine Birbalsingh and the interim
chair, Alun Francis, displayed these skills in abundance through
their initial recruitment and their work at the commission in
delivering a fresh approach to deep-rooted challenges. We have no
plans to review the job specification for this role.
(Lab)
My Lords, the Minister is working overtime today. To ensure she
is on the appropriate rate, I suggest she has a word with my new
noble friend Lady O’Grady of Upper Holloway, whom I am very
pleased to see in her place. I thank the Minister for her reply,
but the resignation of Katharine Birbalsingh came after just 14
months and after a number of statements were made which
demonstrated that she was ill equipped for the role. She was
appointed in addition to her day job as a head teacher. The
issues of social justice that need to be addressed are so
pressing that I do not believe it is realistic to expect the
person tasked with leading that work to do so in their spare
time. Will the Government recognise those pressing issues and the
increasing level of child poverty—which, incidentally, used to be
in the title of the Social Mobility Commission—by refocusing, by
renaming the body the social justice commission and by making its
chair a full-time role?
(Con)
My Lords, the Government have no plans to do that. Katharine made
very clear why she left in her article in Schools Week. The
Minister for Women and Equalities has been very clear about how
grateful she is to Katharine for her time as chair and also to
Alun Francis, her deputy, who has now taken over as interim
chairman. The commission has done excellent work under
Katharine’s chairmanship and Alun’s deputy chairmanship, and that
work will go on, so we have no plans to change anything at the
moment.
(LD)
My Lords, as I have read it, the person who has resigned felt
that they were doing more harm than good in the end. Can the
Government make sure that they define exactly what they are
supposed to do, and that the public know what that is, so that
when the next person takes up this role on a permanent basis, we
can all know what to expect and they can know what to deliver?
(Con)
My Lords, it is very clear what the SMC should be doing. It is
written down in its agreement with the Government. It has been
delivering that, and it will continue to deliver that. I know
that the commission met on 9 January under the deputy chairman,
Alun Francis, and it is continuing to work and continuing with
the priorities set previously by Katharine, Alun and the
commission.
(Lab Co-op)
My Lords, I offer the Minister congratulations on answering three
Questions out of the four, particularly since she has done so
without any support from officials in the Box. I have never seen
this before. In view of the debate that we are about to have on
relations between Parliament and the Executive, does this
indicate how the Department for Levelling Up, Housing and
Communities shows no real interest in the proceedings of this
House?
(Con)
My Lords, I assure noble Lords that I have been extremely well
briefed—I hope—on this issue. This issue, interestingly enough,
is not to do with DLUHC. It comes from the equalities grouping,
which is the responsibility of the Cabinet Office. The reality is
that when one is answering 10 or 12 questions in 10 minutes, one
cannot get anything from the Box, so it is much better that the
officials stay away and brief the Minister beforehand.
of Ullock (Lab)
My Lords, I start by congratulating the Minister on her stamina
this morning. She deserves a cup of coffee after this. My noble
friend Lord Watson mentioned child poverty, so I remind noble
Lords that last year, the Social Mobility Commission reported
that almost 700,000 more children were living in poverty than in
2012. Will the Government establish a new child poverty reduction
unit in No. 10 to accompany the work of the commission?
(Con)
I am not aware of any plans to do that, but I will take the idea
back. I have yet to meet my officials. I was officially put into
this role only on Monday evening, so at my first meeting, I will
certainly talk to officials about that and will talk further to
the noble Baroness.
(Con)
My Lords, does my noble friend consider it seemly that reference
should be made to the most senior officer of a board as an
inanimate object?
(Con)
I certainly would never want to be called a chair; I have always
required people to call me a chairman. That is the name of it,
but perhaps I am a little old-fashioned.
(LD)
My Lords, given that social mobility has been decreasing over
several decades now, will the Minister define what the Social
Mobility Commission and the new tsar should be doing to improve
this? All the evidence shows that it is not working.
(Con)
My Lords, it is working. The annual State of the Nation report
from the Social Mobility Commission, published on 23 June, talks
about the progress made towards improving social mobility in this
country. Produced under the previous chairmanship of the
commission, it sets out a new approach to social mobility. It
introduces a new social mobility index, which provides a
systematic way of measuring social mobility across the whole of
the UK. Data will now be compiled annually and at longer
intervals of five and 10 years. This is important because we need
to show the trends and to be able to prove it, as at times we get
conflicting evidence about what is happening to social mobility.
Certainly, the number of children from deprived areas who are
going to university is going up.
(Con)
My Lords, the Minister will know that two months ago, the
commission reported that schools were no longer agents of social
mobility. She will also know that universities now are not always
guaranteed agents of social mobility because of the high level of
graduate unemployment or underemployment. Will she ensure that
whoever becomes the head of this commission really understands
that the curriculum in general schools today is not serving the
purpose of social mobility for hundreds of thousands of students?
At least 300,000 students are disadvantaged still.
(Con)
I thank my noble friend for that. I will certainly take that
back. I am almost sure that anybody who will be chairing this
commission or serving on it will have all that information in
front of them and be looking at it in detail.
(Lab)
In an answer to an earlier question, the Minister referred to the
remit and the scope of the work of this body on social mobility.
Is there not a glaring problem in this House, where there is a
clear restriction on any kind of social mobility? I am referring
to the 92 places that are reserved for hereditary Peers. Is there
any progress at all towards greater social mobility among this
sector, and if not, why not?
(Con)
I have no answer for the noble Lord on that one. The questions I
am answering are on a completely different subject.
(Con)
My Lords, as my noble friend pointed out, the key
to greater social mobility must lie in education reform. By a
happy coincidence, this House is about to establish a Select
Committee on that very subject.
(Con)
I agree with my noble friend that it has to start with education.
That is why we had an extremely strong person in the chair at the
time: her views on education were different, but they were
extremely strong about the importance of education for children
and for social mobility. I am pleased that we have a new Select
Committee discussing this issue, and I hope that it will take
forward those issues because they are important.
