Asked by
To ask His Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of
the impact, if any, of the HS2 rail project in Wales.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for
Transport () (Con)
My Lords, HS2 will free up capacity on the existing west coast
main line and enable faster journey times from the rest of Great
Britain to both north and south Wales via new interchange
opportunities. Journey times from many places in north Wales to
London could be reduced to around two and a quarter hours,
changing at the refurbished Crewe station.
(Lab)
The continued categorisation of HS2 as an England and Wales
project by the UK Treasury scuppers the Welsh Government’s
ability to invest in rail in Wales. In July 2021, the Welsh
Affairs Committee concluded that HS2 should be reclassified as an
England-only scheme. Will the Minister review this profoundly
unfair situation?
(Con)
My Lords, it is the case that Wales does not receive Barnett
funding from HS2, as the UK Government remain responsible for
heavy rail infrastructure in England and Wales, but the use of
departmental comparability factors in the Barnett formula at
spending reviews means that the Welsh Government have received a
significant uplift in Barnett-based funding.
(Con)
My Lords, I declare an interest as a former member of the HS2
Select Committee, which sat every day, mostly all day, for two
years—a bit of an exile to the eastern front, if there ever was
one. There is now a lot of uncertainty over the northern sections
of HS2. Does she agree that it is incredibly important that this
uncertainty is cleared up as soon as possible—not least because
of the number of properties that have been blighted and the
amount of compensation that will have to be paid if these two
links go ahead?
(Con)
I am grateful to my noble friend for his service on the Select
Committee—I know that these Bills can sometimes be very large
indeed. That for phase 2b, the western leg, is in the other place
at the moment, and a Select Committee is being put in place. The
Government remain committed to delivering HS2, as the Secretary
of State set out in his update to Parliament last month.
(LD)
My Lords, in her answer to the noble Baroness, the Minister had
an interesting new interpretation of the way in which the Barnett
formula works. In the past, it has always been possible to track
through how much Barnett money would come, and why. It has not
been possible in this case to detect Barnett formula money as a
result of HS2. Can the Minister explain to us exactly how much
Wales has received in Barnett consequentials as a result of this
project, and when that money was received and why?
(Con)
As I tried to explain, the Government take an overarching
approach, as heavy rail infrastructure is the responsibility of
the Government in England and Wales. But if one looks at rail
investment in Wales, one can see that we are investing record
amounts already. In CP6, we have invested £2 billion in Wales
alone, which includes £1.2 billion in renewals and upgrading
infrastructure and £373 million for rail enhancements.
(Lab)
My Lords, Ministers have said that all trains from south Wales to
Paddington will stop at Old Oak Common, the station of HS2 in
London. That will add 10 minutes to the journey. How much will
that station cost and how many years of delay will there be while
it is constructed on the Great Western main line?
(Con)
The noble Lord and I have had many conversations about Old Oak
Common in the past. The Government remain committed to the
construction of Old Oak Common; we believe that having trains
stopping there will mean that the station becomes a vital
integrated transport link in west London, which would lead into
many other parts of London and beyond.
(Lab)
My Lords, is it not the case that the taxpayer is being ripped
off by contractors because there is a lack of oversight of this
scheme? What are the Government going to do to bring it back into
budget?
(Con)
If the noble Lord is talking about HS2, I do not recognise his
comments about the Government being ripped off, but I certainly
recognise that the Government must make sure that the scheme is
adequately scrutinised. Indeed, that is the case. As he will have
seen from the most recent update to Parliament, HS2 remains
within its funding envelope.
(Lab)
My Lords, the Minister is absolutely right to say that north
Wales will benefit from the construction of HS2, with shorter
journey times and relief of overcrowding on the west coast main
line. Would it not be even more sensible, rather than expecting
passengers to change at Crewe, if the north Wales coast line were
electrified before High Speed 2 got to Crewe, so they could run
through trains along the north Wales coast which are all High
Speed 2 trains?
(Con)
The noble Lord is trying to get me to make commitments from the
Dispatch Box which I am not able to make, unfortunately. However,
I think it is worth understanding that the Crewe interchange as
it is now planned was substantially revamped following
significant concerns from stakeholders in north Wales and beyond.
We have altered the Crewe northern connection so that it could
allow for five to seven trains per hour to call at Crewe and then
to be able to go down the high-speed line or, indeed, the
conventional track.
(Con)
My Lords, my noble friend referred to the uncertainty over the
northern part of HS2. Will she commit to rail improvements for
the northern rail project to make sure that we have a new line to
open up the railway between Teesside and Liverpool?
(Con)
As my noble friend will know, the Government set out in the
integrated rail plan tens of billions of pounds of investment
across the north and the Midlands. We want to take that forward
in line with the 2019 manifesto. She will also be aware that an
Autumn Statement is coming up on 17 November, and I cannot say
anything further at this time.
(Lab)
My Lords, in the discussions which the noble Baroness has
undoubtedly had with the Treasury on the benefits of continuing
with HS2 north of Birmingham, has she pointed out that the city
of Birmingham has already seen massive inward investment by
companies moving there in advance of HS2 coming? Does she not
agree that the same would happen in the north if HS2 were to
continue up there?
(Con)
I agree with the noble Lord that Birmingham and the surrounding
areas have seen huge investment following the confirmation that
HS2 would go there. Indeed, the same could well happen for the
western leg. It is in the strategic case, and the case for HS2
going north from Birmingham is strengthened by the fact that we
believe businesses will flock to Manchester and other areas.
(LD)
As a north Walian, I support all the concerns that the noble
Baroness, Lady Wilcox, and others have mentioned already. What I
and a lot of north Walians are concerned about is that we have no
through trains on the Holyhead to Euston line—although I think
there is just one through train a day. I came here this morning,
and I had to change on the way; often, we have to change at Crewe
and at Chester. Why is this promise of a through train from north
Wales to Euston not being kept? What is the cause of that?
(Con)
I understand the noble Lord’s concern, and the Government are
looking very carefully at train timetables at the moment. Noble
Lords will have heard me discuss in the House before the
challenges at Avanti. We are working very closely with Avanti to
make sure that it can offer as full a service as possible. The
next upgrade is on 11 December.
(Lab)
My Lords, my noble friend asked some specific questions
about costs and delays which I do not think the Minister
answered. Could she do so now, please?
(Con)
I think the noble Lord, , asked me about the cost of
Old Oak Common station. I do not have that figure to hand, but I
will be happy to write.
(Lab)
I welcome the Minister’s clear assertion on behalf of the
Government that they remain fully committed to the construction
of HS2. There can be barely a capital expenditure programme that
has been examined so repeatedly, not only nationwide but here in
the House of Lords. Can I remind her that opposition to HS2 is in
the finest traditions of the House of Lords, which in the 1830s
threw out the London to Birmingham railway proposal? Fortunately,
that was later reversed, but if it had been thrown out and the
Lords had succeeded in their opposition, we would be in an
infinitely worse position than we are today.
(Con)
I am grateful to the noble Lord for that reminder. I will ensure
that the relevant people in my department are aware of it.
