Asked by
[V]
To ask His Majesty’s Government when they next intend to meet
NATO officials to discuss progress in the conflict in the
Ukraine.
The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence () (Con)
My Lords, the United Kingdom continues to engage closely and
regularly with our NATO allies as a key part of our response to
Russia’s illegal invasion of Ukraine. The Secretary of State for
Defence met his NATO counterparts on 12 October, where allies
reiterated unequivocal support for Ukraine’s sovereignty and
territorial integrity. We will continue to act alongside our NATO
allies to counter Russian aggression.
(Lab) [V]
My Lords, Ministers repeatedly blame the war for the economic
crisis, and I agree. Can we have an assurance that with rampant
inflation here at home, volatility in the international money
markets and millions worldwide, including in the United Kingdom,
facing deprivation, there are no circumstances whatever in which
the UK would dispatch in isolation, or with others in NATO,
combat military forces of any nature to engage in military action
in Ukraine? We need to protect the international economy and seek
to restrain Russian’s infrastructural bombing campaign before it
is too late.
(Con)
As the noble Lord will be aware, since the illegal invasion of
Ukraine occurred the United Kingdom has been at the forefront of
assisting the country in defending itself. We have been working
closely in conjunction with our NATO partners and with our other
bilateral partners and friends within the EU. That concerted
effort is the best way, I think, to seek to reject President
Putin’s illegal incursion; certainly the resolve of all countries
to support the rule of law and respect the right of sovereignty
is determined and resolute.
My Lords, will the Minister give us an update on Russia’s use of
drones yesterday, which caused such devastation among civilian
populations? Is there any way we can give additional support to
Ukraine to shoot these down? Is it not time that we urgently seek
an international treaty on the use of drones, for everybody’s
sake?
(Con)
I agree with the right reverend Prelate that the consequences of
the drone attack on Kyiv have been devastating. I think that
everyone has watched with horror as again civilians are targeted,
people are killed and others are seriously injured. The right
reverend Prelate will be aware that part of the United Kingdom’s
support to Ukraine has been air defence systems. NATO, plus other
bilateral states, with Ukraine, have been doing their best to
support Ukraine in what it needs. We are cognisant of the danger
presented by this form of attack by Russia. We are also aware
that the equipment supplied to date has been greatly assisting
Ukraine in seeing off this kind of threat.
(Con)
I think one way of discouraging the use of these murderous drone
weapons supplied by Iran is to make it clear to Iran that this
could have very serious and disastrous consequences for Iran
itself. I want to ask my noble friend whether she would encourage
at any such meeting that is going to take place a very careful
examination of the changing position of China and foreign policy
experts in Beijing. Has she heard reports that China is becoming
increasingly worried that its control and influence over Mr Putin
is diminishing, and that it is very fearful that he is going to
use tactical nuclear weapons? Will she make sure that we make
full use of any change of opinion in China? Without China’s
support, there really is a good chance that Moscow might change
direction.
(Con)
My noble friend makes a very important point. I reassure him that
the UK continues to engage with China at all levels in Beijing,
London and the United Nations to make clear that the world is
watching what China chooses to say and do and whether its actions
contribute to peace and stability or it chooses to fuel
aggression. We expect China to stand up for Ukraine’s sovereignty
and territorial integrity and to uphold its commitment to the
United Nations charter. It has an important role to play and we
want to be sure, as a sovereign state, that we keep open the
lines of communication so that we can convey the very relevant
points to which my noble friend refers.
(Lab)
My Lords, as a once young naval soldier in Germany and a former
Defence Minister, I fully support western Governments in
providing arms to Ukraine. Since membership of NATO involves
mutual obligations well beyond this, will the Government publish
a paper spelling out the pros and cons if NATO membership is
granted to Ukraine?
(Con)
As the noble and learned Lord is aware, the United Kingdom is
sympathetic to Ukraine’s desire to join NATO. We are supportive
of that aspiration, in line with the 2008 Bucharest summit
declaration. However, at the end of the day, any decision on
membership is for NATO allies and for aspirant countries to
take.
of Newnham (LD)
The right reverend Prelate mentioned the drone attacks yesterday.
What assessment have the Government made of the impact on Ukraine
of the loss of power—about 30% of power has been lost—and is the
West able to support Ukraine to keep the lights on?
(Con)
As the noble Baroness will be aware, the best that we can do,
along with our allies and partners, is to support Ukraine in the
defence of its territory in trying to see off the barbaric and
illegal attacks to which it has been subjected by Russia. The
principal concern has probably been the Zaporizhzhia nuclear
power plant, for understandable reasons. We welcome the efforts
of the IAEA and United Nations staff to be on site, and we hope
that will enable a robust inspection to be concluded. We are
cognisant of the risk, and we will do everything that we can to
continue to help Ukraine to see off the threat.
(CB)
My Lords, the interest of the House in the progress of the
military situation in Ukraine is entirely understandable, but can
the Minister reassure the House that the Government recognise the
two very separate objectives of conflict termination and conflict
resolution, and that it is not in policy formulation that we
aspire to resolve the conflict through military means alone?
(Con)
It has been clear from the outset that our desire—or mission, if
you like—was to support Ukraine in its attempts to defend itself
against this illegal aggression and invasion of its sovereign
territory. That is our role, as it is the role of NATO and other
partners. As to the future, and whether the conflict can ever be
resolved and negotiations embarked on, that is absolutely for
Ukraine to determine.
(Lab)
Was it not one of the beliefs of Putin, following his illegal
invasion of Ukraine, that the members of NATO would split and
start arguing among themselves? Is not one of the Government’s
prime objectives, supported by all of us, that we maintain NATO’s
unity in the face of that aggression? Can the Government reassure
us that, at every opportunity, they will reiterate that to all
our NATO allies?
(Con)
The noble Lord’s point is well made. He will realise, from the
evidence available to us, that in the actions of NATO members—not
only in their regular engagements but at the summit in Madrid and
the consequent developments from that, whether it was the
comprehensive assistance plan or the development of DIANA, the
accelerator for the north Atlantic—there is an absolutely united
resolve to support countries that find themselves the victims of
illegal activity, illegal aggression and illegal invasion. There
is no question that the resolve of the member states of NATO is
absolutely steady and stable. We are standing shoulder to
shoulder to ward off evil—because that is what we are talking
about.
(Con)
My Lords, will the Minister accept that there have been very
staunch attacks on civilians and a great number of attacks on
hospitals, as well as attacks on schools and stations? When these
are all put together, is it not very difficult to try to imagine
that these are anything other than crimes against humanity?
(Con)
I have no hesitation in agreeing with my noble friend. We have
all been appalled by the barbarism of Russia’s attacks in
Ukraine, not least in Kyiv. It is quite clear that deliberate
attacks on civilians and civilian infrastructure are war crimes,
and those responsible will be held to account. The ICC, with
support from countries such as the UK, is doing a remarkable job
in ensuring that crimes are investigated, evidence is gathered
and the basis is laid for successful prosecutions.
(LD)
My Lords, what concrete steps have the Government taken in their
efforts to restore the stocks of missiles and other weapons which
we have generously and properly supplied to the Government of
Ukraine?
(Con)
As I have observed to the noble Lord before, we continually
manage and analyse our stocks of weapons and munitions against
commitments and threats. We also review industrial capacity and
supply chains, both domestically and internationally. These
considerations have informed the numbers of munitions granted in
kind to the armed forces of Ukraine and their avenues of supply.
