Asked by
To ask Her Majesty’s Government what alternative plans they have
prepared in the event that the United Kingdom is no longer a part
of the Horizon Europe research programme.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for
Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy () (Con)
My Lords, the Government remain committed to associating to
Horizon Europe. We remain disappointed that the EU is
politicising science co-operation by delaying association. If the
UK is unable to associate soon, we are ready to introduce a
comprehensive alternative programme that delivers many of the
benefits of Horizon through international collaboration,
end-to-end innovation and a strong and attractive offer to
encourage talented researchers to build their careers here in the
UK.
(Lab)
My Lords, I thank the Minister for that Answer. This is the third
time that I have asked that Question and it is always the same
disappointing Answer. I forget—forgive me—whether or not the
Secretary of State in the Minister’s department is still in post,
but I am a great admirer of the current Minister for Science, who
is doing a good job.
Noble Lords
He has gone.
(Lab)
He has gone? Then he was going a good job. I can think of no
better follow-up question to ask the Minister than whether he
agrees with the fact that the Government’s policy on Horizon
Europe shows a:
“Lack of HMT commitment to shape & funding of a bold Plan
B”
and
“risks a deepening brain drain & crisis of confidence &
credibility in UK”?
Those were the words of the Minister for Science yesterday.
(Con)
The Minister the noble Lord refers to, one of my ex-colleagues,
was doing an excellent job in putting together precisely the
programme that the noble Lord asks for. We remain hopeful that
the EU will change its position, live up to its obligations and
agree to co-operate in science. That is the best way forward for
both parties. If it does not, we have allocated £6.8 billion over
the spending review period to put in place an alternative
programme.
(LD)
My Lords,
“chaos in No10, breakdown of Cabinet collective responsibility
and collapse of public confidence in government represents a
constitutional crisis. It is also now seriously undermining our
authority in key negotiations on the world stage at a time of
urgent international crises”
and “destroying our credibility”. Every single word of that was
from the ex-Minister this morning. How on earth
can we secure a good deal for our nation abroad when at home the
Conservative Party is inflicting, in his words, “a constitutional
crisis” on us?
(Con)
It is clearly a difficult political time at the moment but I have
great faith in the institutions of this country. I am sure we
will get through it and continue the excellent work that this
Government have been doing on all those matters.
(CB)
My Lords, let us hope that we succeed with the remaining part of
the Horizon Europe programme. I appreciate that the Government
are committed to putting that same money back into research but
can the noble Lord confirm that the money will go to research,
which is where most of our Horizon Europe programme money goes,
and not be earmarked for other purposes not regarded as research?
While he is at it, can he update us on developments with
ARIA?
(Con)
I can indeed give the noble Lord that assurance. The money is a
direct replacement and will go to research, but our preference
remains to associate to Horizon Europe, if possible. With regard
to ARIA, the noble Lord can expect some announcements on the
chairman and chief executive fairly soon.
(Lab)
Does the Minister accept that this is not just a question of
money? Scientific advance depends on international collaboration,
networking, exchange of information and so on. Does he accept the
gravity of the present situation? Universities are the seed
funding of any solution to the productivity issue that is central
to economic recovery. At the moment, however, we are cutting
ourselves off from Europe, we are suspicious of China and we are
introducing a range of legislation, not least the National
Security and Investment Act, that will bring great concern and
instability to our universities. What measures are the Government
taking to address the gravity of that crisis and to assuage that
instability, particularly in our institutions of higher
education?
(Con)
There were many different questions there. First, I agree with
the noble Lord about the importance of international science
collaboration. Secondly, we are not cutting ourselves off from
the rest of the world. We remain keen to associate to Horizon
Europe and co-operate with other scientific nations across the
world. Thirdly, I do not agree with his point about the National
Security and Investment Act causing problems for universities.
The system is working extremely well and applications are being
approved smoothly, as he will see if he looks at the recently
produced annual report.
The (CB)
The sorry state of affairs is, of course, the result of the
impasse over the Northern Ireland protocol. Can the noble Lord
the Minister assure us on two fronts—first, that the plan B
concepts will not be brought forward until absolutely the last
moment when it is not possible practically to join this iteration
of the seven-year Horizon programme, which would come not before
the end of this year; and, secondly, that if a plan B comes
forward, it would be structured in such a way that the future
co-operative and collaborative matters that the noble Lord, Lord
Reid, talked about can be taken advantage of because it would be
possible to collaborate with a future Horizon programme?
(Con)
Indeed, the Northern Ireland protocol is the excuse that the EU
gives for refusing to live up to its commitment. These are
separate agreements and issues. We would prefer them to be
completely separate. We want to associate with Horizon Europe
because it is in both our interests. There should be
international science collaboration, as I said in response to
previous questions, and we remain willing to sit down and
implement the agreement that was entered into, just as soon as
the EU is prepared to talk about it.
(Lab)
As we have heard, the Minister who floated the plan B to replace
Horizon Europe is no longer in place. But even before the
Government fell apart, neither the Cabinet nor the Treasury had
signed it off, anyway. Can the Government now confirm whether
these plans are dead in the water and explain how they will take
responsibility to protect the British academic sector from
further damage before the UK’s associate membership ends?
(Con)
I do not know if the noble Baroness was listening to the replies
that I gave but the Treasury is fully committed to the £6.8
billion announced in the spending review. The Government remain
keen to get on with this and associate to Horizon Europe if we
can, but we are putting in place alternatives that will be just
as effective in terms of international co-operation. We will
spend similar amounts of money.
(LD)
UK participation in Horizon Europe has been of immeasurable
benefit to our researchers but, because of their calibre, it has
also been of immeasurable benefit to our one-time EU partners.
Producing our own scheme will not be the same. What efforts are
the Government putting into negotiations to ensure that we can
continue to participate in Horizon to our benefit and that of our
Horizon partners, too?
(Con)
I agree with the noble Baroness that this co-operation has
benefits for both sides and it is a shame that the EU continues
to drag science into wider politics. Now, more than ever, we
believe that we should be working closely together with
like-minded partners, but it is difficult for us to negotiate if
we have no one on the other side willing to talk about it.
(Con)
My Lords, there is no justifiable reason for the UK not to be
part of the Horizon programme. Does my noble friend agree that
this is due not to any reticence from the UK Government but to
the EU dragging its feet and placing unnecessary obstacles in the
way?
(Con)
My noble friend is exactly correct.
(Lab)
My Lords, the Minister referred to plan B, and the financial
commitment is obviously to be welcomed. Does he agree that the
most important issue here is not finance but the international
networks established for research? I should like to quote
Professor Dame Anne Johnson, president of the Academy of Medical
Sciences, who said:
“Horizon Europe provides an important and established framework
for the networks and relationships that underpin international
health research and benefit patients’ health everywhere.”
Does the Minister accept that it is the international networks
that are crucial?
(Con)
Money is of course important but I agree that the international
networks, both with the EU and wider partners, are also crucial.
That I why we should like to associate with Horizon Europe if the
EU is prepared to sit down and discuss these things with us and
to live up to the commitments it made in the TCA. I am sorry that
many Members of this House are prepared to make excuses for the
EU on this. We agreed it and are prepared to live by the
commitment. It is the EU that is refusing to honour what it
signed up to.
