Asked by Baroness Finlay of Llandaff To ask Her Majesty’s
Government how many applications for visas under the Homes for
Ukraine scheme have been received and provided to Ukrainian
refugees, and how many refugees have entered the UK since the
scheme opened. Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB) My Lords, I beg
leave to ask a Question of which I have given private notice, and
declare an interest as I applied with my husband on the day the
scheme opened to welcome and...Request free trial
Asked by
To ask Her Majesty’s Government how many applications for visas
under the Homes for Ukraine scheme have been received and
provided to Ukrainian refugees, and how many refugees have
entered the UK since the scheme opened.
(CB)
My Lords, I beg leave to ask a Question of which I have given
private notice, and declare an interest as I applied with my
husband on the day the scheme opened to welcome and support a
family into our home.
The Minister of State, Department for Levelling Up, Housing and
Communities and Home Office () (Con)
I thank the noble Baroness for the Question. I can confirm that
more than 20,000 applications have been received for the Homes
for Ukraine scheme and we will be providing further information
in due course.
Noble Lords
Oh!
(CB)
My Lords, the lack of information is extremely worrying. We have
an ethical obligation of non-abandonment, having given a
commitment to stand with Ukraine and offer sanctuary. Do the
Government recognise that the visa process is causing great
distress to already-traumatised Ukrainians who have experienced
cumulative losses, pervasive existential terror and mass
bereavements and are now increasingly at risk? The process is
also increasingly frustrating for the tens of thousands of
Britons who want to welcome them into their homes and will
provide a long-term commitment. Will the Government heed the call
from major charities in the Times today to introduce a simplified
emergency humanitarian process immediately?
(Con)
I agree with much of the sentiment of what the noble Baroness
said. As far as the visa process is concerned, the only purpose
is to provide security checks for this country. As I have said on
the record before, when I was given the job to do by the Prime
Minister, that was the only constraint. It is my job to make sure
that the visa process is speeded up, and in the last two weeks we
have gone on to a system where those with Ukrainian passports can
fill out the form and download the visa without having to go to a
visa centre, which they did only two weeks ago.
(Lab)
My Lords, the Minister said there were 20,000 applications for
visas. Can he say how many Ukrainians have actually arrived in
this country under this scheme? It is heartening to see how
full-hearted the response from the British public has been to it,
but what is the position with very young children, newly born
babies and those soon to be born? Will their parents need similar
visa arrangements for them to come to this country?
(Con)
The answer to the question on the babies is that children under
five do not have passports or visas. The reason why there still
have to be visits to visa application centres is our fear that
very young children will be used to be trafficked over here, and
we need evidence that typically the mother—but sometimes the
father—in question is in fact the rightful parent. We really do
that as quickly and easily as we can. We cannot ignore the fact
that there are people traffickers operating, and we have to do
some due diligence.
(Con)
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that today, following meetings
with British universities, eight rectors of medical universities
in Ukraine—and I have the letter in my hand—have written to the
Secretary of State asking that where a British university has
invited an academic or a student over, entry into this country be
expedited?
(Con)
I thank my noble friend for that question. I was not aware of the
letter and I look forward to receiving it from him personally,
because it might be quicker than via the system, and I will
answer it very quickly.
The Lord
My Lords, I pay tribute to the Minister for the enormous amount
that he has done in a very short space of time. At the same time,
however, I acknowledge the frustration that is felt and expressed
by the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay, on the part of so many
people. We have tried locally to convene people in the community,
and enormous support is forthcoming, but there seems to be a
problem with the process. One acknowledges the need for security
checks, but I have heard a lot of times, anecdotally, about the
complexity of the visa process and how difficult it is. Local
government is waiting for guidance from the Government here.
(Con)
It should not be my job always to agree with the questions that
are asked but, in this case, I totally believe in the sentiment
that the right reverend Prelate expressed. I am looking at every
aspect of the visa process to speed it up. The Home Secretary and
I have personally spent hours with officials, including at
weekends, looking at ways that we can speed this up because, if
the security checks are put in place—which they are—it seems to
me that there is no reason why people applying on the internet,
or indeed at a visa centre in the countries adjacent to Ukraine,
should not be able to get a response really quickly to allow them
to come here. I cannot stand here for a long time using the
excuse that I am new to the job, but I promise the right reverend
Prelate and noble Lords that this is an absolute top
priority.
(LD)
My Lords, whatever their advice, the security services advise
Ministers, but it is Ministers who decide. Why is almost every
other European country—Ireland, for example—content to allow
Ukrainian refugees to enter visa-free while the UK is demanding a
visa before entry? Do our security services not liaise with our
allies? Instead of security, is it because such an approach would
contradict the proposed inhumane treatment of refugees in the
Nationality and Borders Bill?
(Con)
I cannot comment to the noble Lord about the security services,
except to say that I have not seen the advice that they have
given to the Prime Minister. However, my instructions are to
speed up this process as quickly as possible to move an uncapped
number of people here in a humanitarian and decent way. It is my
intention to deliver that promise.
(CB)
My Lords, could the Minister be kind enough to tell us whether we
or the Government have had any contact with all the other
European countries that are admitting people without security
checks, to discuss whether the security problems being caused by
our policy are disproportionate, or whether the contrary is
perhaps true?
(Con)
I promise the noble Lord that I will engage in that process—in
the two weeks that I have been in the job, I have not done so. It
is something that we must do.
(Lab)
I also welcome the noble Lord to his role. I have heard only good
things about him, and I wish him well in what he is doing—it is
so important. First, I will ask something that was raised by the
noble Baroness, Lady Finlay: how many Ukrainians have arrived in
this country under the system that has been created? We have not
heard the answer to that question. Secondly, why cannot women
with young children be allowed in—and, if there is any concern, a
centre for DNA testing be created immediately? That can be done
so simply nowadays; honestly, it is not complex any more. That is
a route for dealing with this problem. My other point is that
people are applying using their mobile phones, but it is very
difficult to do so with young children when you do not have
access to a computer. Like others, I say that the simplification
of this system is absolutely imperative.
(Con)
I thank the noble Baroness for her good wishes, although I may
not receive them after I answer this question because, for the
moment, I cannot give her the answer that she wants, which is the
number of visas that have been successfully submitted. The scheme
is new—
Noble Lords
Oh!
(Con)
If noble Lords will bear with me, we will be able to give those
numbers in the next few days. I reiterate that it is my intention
and that of the Home Secretary to make the visa process as rapid
as possible, and literally all my time at the moment is spent
trying to deliver that.
(PC)
I draw to the Minister’s attention the experience of a Ukrainian
refugee known to me who, on Monday of last week, went to a UK
embassy in a central European state to make a visa application.
They were told they did not deal with them on Mondays, only on
Wednesdays and to come back then. Is that a reflection of the
urgency the UK Government are giving to this matter?
(Con)
I ask the noble Lord to give me the details of that person—that
is unacceptable and there is no visa centre to my knowledge that
would say, “We don’t do it on Mondays, we do it on Wednesdays”.
We have broken such things as the European working time directive
with permissions of Governments to get embassies, such as in
Warsaw, open seven days a week. It is certainly not our intention
to stop people with excuses like that. I would be grateful for
that example.
of Headley (Con)
Are the Bank of England and the Treasury working with the ECB to
help Ukrainian refugees convert their currency into either euros
or pounds? In asking this question, I draw your Lordships’
attention to my entry in the register.
(Con)
I shall write to my noble friend with the answer to that question
because I am not party to that information.
(LD)
Will the Minister meet me, because I am really struggling to get
a family that I am trying to sponsor to fill in the paperwork.
They are all women and children—three generations. They are
struggling to fill in the application forms and upload the
documents: they have to use Google Translate, their internet
keeps failing and each time they have to start from the beginning
as the page is not saved. That process has to be done for each
and every person. Why is there no one on the ground in the Home
Office to help them? Honestly, it looks as though the Home Office
has designed a system that is programmed to fail. That just does
not reflect the generosity of the British people.
(Con)
I do not accept the statement of the noble Baroness that the
system is built to fail—it is not. But there are problems with
it. I would be delighted to sit down with her and discuss it. She
did make one error in what she said—and perhaps she does not
realise it—in that though the forms are in English, there is a
drop-down section for each one translating into Ukrainian. But I
would be very pleased to meet her.
(Lab)
My Lords, it is a simple question: how many Ukrainians have been
admitted to the United Kingdom under this scheme? It is quite
simple—or is the Minister telling us he does not know?
(Con)
We will publish the answer to that question very soon, I
promise.
(CB)
My Lords, I understand that a private provider is involved in the
visa application process. I wonder whether the Minister could
tell the House who that is?
I have another question, which is about health workers who come
to this country from Ukraine. Will they be allowed to continue
working immediately? They need to. It would mean their
qualifications being recognised and, for those still in training,
it would mean them being accepted into the medical, nursing and
other training institutes as soon as possible so that they can
contribute not only to the NHS but to the health of their own
nationals who are settling here.
(Con)
The noble Baroness asked two questions—the first one about an
outside provider. As far as I know, the Home Office uses some
agency staff to boost up staff; for example, with the night
shifts we are doing. I do not know whether there is one general
provider. There is not to my knowledge, but if there is, I will
drop her a line and say so.
In answer to the question about health workers, we have a section
in the welcome pack for Ukrainian refugees about recognising
overseas qualifications and we have people who are doing that.
Quite as to the specific healthcare qualifications that she
mentions, I do not know—I think it depends on the nature of the
qualification. But if we are not doing it, we should be, and I
will do my best to make sure that happens.
(CB)
My Lords, I have every sympathy with the Minister in trying to
defend the indefensible, but I would be very grateful if he would
go back to the department and ask three questions. First, is
there any overriding reason why we have to have a visa
requirement and none of our European neighbours do? Secondly, if
there is a requirement for a visa, could we not initiate—as
suggested in debates on the borders Bill—a temporary provisional
humanitarian visa for issue on demand? Thirdly, would the
Minister please consider whether the security case is still as
strong as was put to him? Would he please have a look at this
personally? I find it very hard to see these desperate, destitute
Ukrainian mothers and children as a plausible security risk
compared to, say, Russian oligarchs with strong KGB or FSB
connections.
(Con)
I could not really dispute the rationale of what the noble Lord
said last; I do not think we can compare oligarchs who are not
allowed here to refugees who are. We want to expedite them coming
here as quickly as possible. I will look at the security advice.
To reiterate, at the moment, our policy is that we need the
security advice. A visa is needed, but it is done as quickly as
possible. As the days and weeks go on, I intend to make sure that
that happens faster and faster.
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