Asked by
To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they intend to join the
Horizon Europe programme; and if not, why not.
(Lab)
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on
the Order Paper—and, if I may, I would like to wish the noble
Lord, , well in his retirement. He is
a man I have disagreed with all my adult life, and I am sorry he
did not quite last long enough in the Chamber to listen to the
exchanges on what is my first Oral Question.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for
Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy () (Con)
My Lords, in line with the agreement made in December 2020, this
Government are committed to finalising our association to Horizon
Europe at the earliest opportunity. We continue to push the EU
swiftly to formalise our association to Horizon Europe, as
international co-operation is more important than ever now. We
will support the UK R&D sector in all scenarios, either by
associating to Horizon Europe or by implementing an alternative
UK programme.
(Lab)
My Lords, I thank the Minister for the reply, but it is very
dispiriting. On Monday this week in the other place, the annual
STEM for Britain competition was held, which features
early-career scientists from the UK and Europe, with brilliant
work on display. It is the very week when our chances of
co-operation with Europe are slipping away, which will be
terribly damaging. Indeed, does the Minister agree with me that
not joining Horizon Europe is
“harming scientific research and collaboration”?
He certainly should, because that is a direct quote from the
meeting held before Christmas of the Specialised Committee on
Participation in Union Programmes.
Finally, may I also ask him about the money? Money has been
allocated in the Budget for our participation in Horizon Europe.
The financial year is drawing to an end, and we have not yet
joined. Can the Minister assure the House that the money
allocated for Horizon Europe will not be lost to science but will
be carried over, either for the UK’s participation in Horizon
Europe or for such other plan B as may eventually be necessary?
(Con)
I agree with the noble Viscount; it is indeed very disappointing
that the EU is refusing to abide by the agreement we made with
it. I am sure that some of the EU’s supporters in this House will
want to urge it to press ahead with this agreement. The UK stands
willing and able to associate. We have an agreement to that
effect, and we hope the EU will also abide by its commitments.
The noble Viscount will be aware that the spending review
allocated funding for full association to EU programmes. In the
event that the UK is unable to associate, the full funding
allocated will go to UK programmes; £5.6 billion was set aside
over the spending review period.
(LD)
My Lords, the head of policy at the Wellcome Trust is quoted as
saying:
“There is a real prospect that bright young scientists will
decide it will be best … if they leave the UK.”
Meanwhile, recruitment of postgraduates in some of our elite
universities is reported to be seeing a huge drop in candidates.
This is because young researchers fear for the future progression
of their careers. The Minister said we were seeking to resolve
this at the earliest possible opportunity, and I take him at his
word. However, these people are making decisions now—the brain
drain is already happening. In the meantime, what is the plan to
attract and retain the talent we need in this country?
(Con)
I reiterate the point: we want to associate with Horizon Europe.
It is not the UK that is holding up association but the EU. We
want to do that at the earliest possible opportunity. If the
funding we have set aside is not used for Horizon Europe, we
intend to spend equivalent sums on a UK programme, co-operating
with other third countries if necessary. Hopefully that will
attract the talent the noble Lord refers to.
(CB)
My Lords, does the Minister take pleasure from the fact that your
Lordships’ European Affairs Committee has written to the
Commissioner and the Foreign Secretary about seeking to unblock
Horizon? Does he not recognise that we and the EU are now
basically in a lose-lose situation in which both sides are being
damaged by failure to reach agreement? In the months ahead, could
we see an effort by both sides to get that unblocked?
(Con)
I am delighted that the European Affairs Committee has supported
our position on this. As I say, the blockage is not on our side.
I hope that in its letter it acknowledged where the fault lies in
this situation. The EU has an agreement to associate, which we
signed up to in good faith. We stand willing to associate; it is
the EU that is currently blocking progress.
of Darlington (Lab)
My Lords, we need to be pragmatic about this. The truth is that
this is being held up and delayed because the Government have
made such a hash of negotiations on the Northern Ireland
protocol. I do not see any prospect of getting it resolved until
that problem is sorted out. As this may take some time, are the
Government reaching out to counterparts in the EU to make sure
that, even if some further months elapse, we can still join the
Horizon programme, albeit at a late stage?
(Con)
I am sorry that the Opposition seem to be supporting the EU
position on this. The Northern Ireland protocol is a completely
separate part of the agreement, and of course we stand willing to
negotiate in good faith on that as well. The two are not linked.
The EU has signed up to an agreement and should honour it; we
will continue to press it to do so. The Northern Ireland protocol
is also part of the same agreement.
(CB)
My Lords, does the Minister agree that the European Horizon
programmes have been hugely important in catalysing research
collaborations and networks, not only between British scientists
and European ones but with scientists in low and middle-income
countries? Moreover, does he agree that they have also been an
invaluable funding bridge between the basic science funding that
our research councils provide and the much more downstream
R&D funding that industry provides? Her Majesty’s Government
are committed to funding successful applications to Horizon while
negotiations to join continue, but how long is that commitment
for? Will it continue if our application to join ultimately
fails?
(Con)
I agree with the noble Lord that the Horizon project is very
valuable. That is why we want to continue association with it and
why the funding has been allocated. With regard to the funding
guarantee, of course we will want to provide certainty as quickly
as possible. We will have announcements to make in that regard in
due course.
(Lab)
My Lords, the Minister will be aware that one of the key areas of
research in the Horizon programme is space, which we see as very
important; the Government have done a considerable amount in that
area. One area where there was great advance is OneWeb. Have the
events in Ukraine effectively stopped the disposition of that
satellite system? If not, where do we stand on it?
(Con)
The noble Lord makes a very good point. Of course, there is
currently a dispute ongoing with Russia about the launch of the
OneWeb satellite. My right honourable friend the Secretary of
State is closely involved in this and is trying to unblock it as
quickly as possible. But we will not be held to ransom.
(CB)
My Lords, accepting that the ideal scenario would be for the UK
to be part of the Horizon Europe programme, we are, I understand,
in a similar situation to Switzerland. In that respect, what plan
or negotiation are the Government having with the Swiss research
council to collaborate with it?
(Con)
The noble Lord asks a very good question. I know that the
Minister for Science has had productive discussions with the
Swiss on that. They have an extremely good, advanced and able
scientific programme, and we will be looking to step up our
co-operation with Switzerland.
(LD)
My Lords, in headier days the Government assured us that Brexit
would not mean leaving either Erasmus or Horizon. One is tempted
to ask what went wrong, because it certainly is not all the EU’s
fault. If the Government have an alternative, why can they not
start spending now?
(Con)
I am afraid it is indeed the EU’s fault, and no amount of
spinning from the Liberal Democrats will get away from that. We
want to associate with the programme, we stand ready to do so and
the money is available. If it proves to be not possible, we will
spend equivalent sums on supporting UK science.
(Lab)
My Lords, when the Government negotiated, did they make an “in
principle” decision agreement or a cast-iron agreement? It is
hard to believe that something that the European Commission
agreed to as cast iron is now being rejected by it.
(Con)
I am sorry that the noble Lord cannot believe that the European
Commission could do anything wrong, but this is actually part of
the trade and co-operation agreement that the EU and the UK
signed up to. We want to see all parts of that agreement
implemented.
(Con)
My Lords, Horizon Europe is the EU’s key funding programme for
research and innovation, with a budget of £95.5 billion. It
tackles climate change, helps to achieve the UN’s sustainable
development goals, and boosts the EU’s competitiveness and
growth. Legal entities from the EU and associate countries can
participate. Can our participation and our expenditure be on the
basis of having the ability to benefit from items that we are
financing?
(Con)
Yes, we will try to do that.
The (CB)
My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Hannay, referred to our letter.
Our letter came after an evidence session, when it was clear that
it was mutually harmful to science communities of the UK and
Europe not to have the UK participating in the programme. That is
not surprising, because the joint declaration, which is the
foundation of this agreement, says:
“The Parties recognise the mutual benefit”.
Can the Minister assure us that both parties understand that
there is a mutual harm in the programme not starting with UK
participation?
(Con)
I agree totally with the noble Earl that it is to the benefit of
both parties. It provides value for money for the UK, which is
why we agreed to associate with it. We thought that we had a
legally binding agreement with the EU, as part of the trade and
co-operation agreement. We will continue to try to unblock that
and work towards agreement. We want to associate with it
precisely because we think that it is to the benefit of both
parties, and we hope that will be obvious to the EU as well.
