Moved by Lord Grimstone of Boscobel That the Bill be now read a
third time. The Minister of State, Department for Business, Energy
and Industrial Strategy and Department for International Trade
(Lord Grimstone of Boscobel) (Con) My Lords, before we progress
with Third Reading of this Bill, I would like to make a short
statement about our engagement with the devolved Administrations.
My officials and I have worked closely and collaboratively with the
devolved...Request free trial
Moved by
That the Bill be now read a third time.
The Minister of State, Department for Business, Energy and
Industrial Strategy and Department for International Trade
() (Con)
My Lords, before we progress with Third Reading of this Bill, I
would like to make a short statement about our engagement with
the devolved Administrations. My officials and I have worked
closely and collaboratively with the devolved Administrations
throughout the passage of this Bill. We are continuing to discuss
the requirements for legislative consent with the Northern
Ireland Executive, the Scottish Government and the Welsh
Government. I am grateful for their continued engagement on this
issue. I beg to move.
Bill read a third time.
Motion
Moved by
That the Bill do now pass.
(Con)
My Lords, I start by thanking your Lordships for the constructive
approach that has been in evidence throughout this Bill. We have
had robust discussions and debates and the Bill is all the better
for that. In particular, I thank the noble Baronesses, Lady
Hayter of Kentish Town and Lady Blake of Leeds, and the noble
Lords, , and , for the time—sometimes a
deservedly hard time—that they have given me.
The Bill will achieve four key outcomes for the UK. First, it
will end unequal EU-based arrangements for the recognition of
professional qualifications. Secondly, it will help to strengthen
the UK’s ability to negotiate and deliver ambitious deals on the
recognition of professional qualifications with international
partners. Thirdly, it will help professionals to enter new
markets. Finally, it will provide smooth working arrangements for
recognition of professional qualifications across all four
nations of the UK.
I recognise that the Bill did not enter your Lordships’ House in
the good state in which it leaves. The experience, diligence and
practical knowledge of noble Lords have moulded this Bill into
what it is today. Enshrining on the face of the Bill the concept
of regulator autonomy in regard to preventing unfit individuals
from practising is a landmark event.
I was gratified that the government amendments, the stakeholder
engagements and the supporting documents prepared over the summer
between Committee and Report were well received. I pay tribute to
the noble Lord, , and my noble
friends and Lady Noakes for the
expertise that they demonstrated throughout our discussions. I
thank my noble friend Lady McIntosh of Pickering and the noble
Lords, and , for the
constructive nature of the conversations that we have had on this
legislation. I also thank my ministerial counterparts in the
devolved Administrations and their predecessors, whom I have met
on five occasions and written to nine times this year concerning
the Bill. I remain optimistic and hope that they will give
legislative consent to the Bill.
I thank all the regulators to which this Bill applies. We have
engaged with them through a variety of avenues, including seven
round tables that I hosted. They, other professional bodies and
the government departments with which we have engaged have helped
to shape and improve this legislation as it has moved through
your Lordships’ House and we are extremely grateful for their
constructive involvement.
My thanks also go to the officials who have worked so hard to get
us to this position. I give particular thanks to the policy team,
led by Tim Courtney, who not only overcame the challenge of
compiling the list of regulators but, with his partner Cathy,
welcomed the birth of their daughter, Penelope, just 12 days ago.
On behalf of your Lordships’ House, I wish all three of them the
very best. Tim was ably assisted by Hannah Riches, Nick French,
and Sarah Mackintosh, while the Bill team was led superbly in
shipshape fashion by Jamie Wasley and Jennifer Pattison. I would
further like to thank my private secretary, Zack Campbell, for
his sterling service on the Bill, and of course the office of the
Leader of the House and the Whips, the Office of the
Parliamentary Counsel and the clerks in this place. Last, but
certainly not least, I thank my Whip, my noble friend Lady
Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist.
(Con)
My Lords, I thank my noble friend for going the extra mile to put
the Bill in the state in which it is. His statement today on his
continuing engagement on legislative consent with the devolved
Administrations is particularly welcome. In paying tribute to
him, his Bill team and my noble friend Lady Bloomfield, I urge
him to ensure that we see some fruit from the common frameworks
and recognise their importance in implementing what is in not
just this piece of legislation but other forthcoming legislation
as well. I am personally grateful to him.
I thank the Law Society of Scotland, in particular Michael
Clancy, at what has been a very difficult time for him through
his illness. I also thank the Faculty of Advocates, of which I am
a non-practising member, for its engagement in the round table
hosted by my noble friend. I warmly thank my noble friend for all
that he has done and I hope that the Bill will have a safe
passage through the other place.
(Lab)
My Lords, this has been the first Bill I have taken part in since
I joined your Lordships’ House. While I originally thought that
it was going to be an important, if not straightforward, Bill,
the legislation has been much more of an eye-opener than I was
expecting. For example, I did not expect that simply asking who
the Bill related to would result in such confusion from the
Government and months of delay. Securing a list of regulators and
professions in scope of the legislation has been important work.
I recognise the effort that the Government have put in to compile
the list, although I again suggest that perhaps it could have
happened before the Bill was published.
It has been fascinating and enjoyable and I am glad that my first
Bill has been so important both for British citizens who want to
work abroad and for workers who want to bring their expertise to
the UK. Our public services would not function without them and
our communities are richer when they decide to make the UK their
home.
Ultimately, I have seen first-hand how this House can really
scrutinise and improve legislation. I am sure that the Minister
will agree, as he has stated, that this is a better Bill now than
when it was first introduced to Parliament. From the start, we on
these Benches said that it should not undermine the independence
and autonomy of regulators due to their important function of
setting standards and protecting consumers. There was widespread
concern from inside and outside the House that Clause 3 in
particular could force regulators to lower standards due to what
Ministers had agreed in the free trade agreements.
I thank the noble Lords, and , and the noble Baroness, Lady
Noakes, for working cross-party on this important issue. That is
why the Government’s amendment to protect regulatory autonomy is
such a welcome addition to the Bill. This is a big change and,
while not perfect, it should protect domestic standards across
205 regulated professions. I pay tribute to all the regulators
which have engaged so constructively with us.
As this was a skeleton Bill, we also pushed the Government
repeatedly to consult regulators and devolved authorities on
regulations. The Government’s amendment making statutory
provision for consultation with regulators, including departments
in devolved Administrations, is a good step forward.
11:15:00
However, although I welcome the statement made by the Minister,
there is a belief that there remains much work to do on the Bill
in relation to devolved authorities. Just last week, the Minister
promised to continue to explore amending the Bill to alleviate
the justified concerns of the devolved Administrations. We look
forward to discussions on this matter in the other place.
I thank the noble Lord, Lord Grimstone, for the courteous and
professional manner in which he has conducted himself throughout.
From these Benches, we also express our gratitude to the Bill
team, the clerks and the staff of the House. I thank especially
my noble friend Lady Hayter for her unfailing support and
guidance to me and I wish her every success in her new role. My
thanks go also to my noble friend Lord Kennedy for stepping into
the breach for the final sessions of the Bill’s progress.
I know that I speak for all of us when I express our gratitude to
Dan Harris for his unending patience and excellent, detailed
advice throughout the proceedings. I look forward to watching
carefully the next steps being taken in the important areas that
we have covered in this Bill.
(Con)
My Lords, while it is undeniably true that this is a better Bill
leaving the House than when it arrived, in particular because of
the addition of Clauses 14 and 15, it was never clear to me what
problem the Bill was seeking to address and whether indeed it was
necessary. My noble friend claimed that four benefits would flow
from the Bill. If ever there was a case for post-legislative
scrutiny to see whether those benefits in fact accrue, this is
one of them, because I am less than clear that the considerable
effort that my noble friend has had to put in to turning the
ragbag of a Bill that arrived here into something that resembles
a meaningful contribution to the area of professions was a good
use of his time and that of his officials. As I say, I am quite
clear that it is a better Bill, but whether the Bill was ever
necessary is an open question.
(Con)
My Lords, on behalf of the British Association of Snowsport
Instructors and all the winter sports organisations, which have
taken a very active role and interest in the passage of this
Bill, I thank the Minister for his consistent, collaborative and
close support for the British winter sports federations,
particularly with the newly-formed contacts in UK embassies,
addressing issues such as work permits, local regulations and
overt protectionism. We have taken one step forward as a result
of the Bill being before this House, but that one step has been
very much as a result of the efforts of my noble friend, for
which many thanks.
(LD)
On the assumption that there are no more professions that would
wish to thank the Minister, I shall do so. I am pleased that he
is continuing to work on legislative consent, which is important.
Too many Bills are starting to come through your Lordships’ House
where legislative consent is not given. Given the nature of this
Bill, it is important that the devolved authorities are working
with it 100%, so I thank the Minister for his statement and
associate myself with the comments of the noble Baroness, Lady
McIntosh, about the role of frameworks.
It is something of a cliché to say, “The Bill leaves this place a
better Bill”, but in this case the cliché is true. The Minister
set out his view on that and other noble Lords have been more
specific about its shortcomings. I will not go into them, but I
thank the noble Lord, Lord Grimstone, who has had an ear to this
issue from the beginning and took the very worthy decision to put
the Bill on holiday over the Recess and come back with something
that we were all better able to support, with some reservations
from the noble Baroness, Lady Noakes. I also thank the noble
Baroness, Lady Bloomfield, whose whiply eye stared across at us
when she thought we had talked for too long.
The Bill team has had a particularly rough ride on this, and I
thank it for its work, as I thank the wider community that has
fed into the Bill. I thank the ever-changing Opposition Front
Bench for its engagement and work. Finally, I thank my
colleagues, my noble friends Lady Randerson, Lady Garden, of Childs Hill and Lord Purvis,
as well, of course, and without whom we could not have survived,
Sarah Pughe, our legislation administrator who drove us through
all of this.
The Bill has a lot to achieve in that it needs to set out a
structure for how the Government engage with the professions in
future. It was quite clear that that engagement had not existed
in the past, and perhaps this can be a stepping stone to a wider
engagement between the Government and these regulatory
authorities.
(Lab)
My Lords, I declare an interest as a member of a profession,
albeit one which is not mentioned specifically in the Bill. I
still have some residual concern that, although we welcome the
list, the way the Bill is drafted could incorporate professions
not listed, because of some obscure entry in other pieces of
legislation which have not been picked up. However, my main
question is that a lot of work arising from the Bill remains to
be done and the UK-EU Partnership Council has an important role
to play. I am a keen follower of the Partnership Council, I look
at its minutes and its meetings, and this issue, even though it
has been identified as a priority, does not appear to have been
discussed. Perhaps the Minister can reassure me that the matter
will be dealt with with utmost haste.
(Con)
My Lords, I thank noble Lords for their comments and thanks,
particularly to my officials and the Bill team. I say to the
noble Baroness, Lady Blake of Leeds, that no one would have known
that this is the first Bill that she had worked on, and I am sure
that it is the first of many in which she will successfully
participate. I have noted the point made by the noble Lord,
, and, if I may, I
will write to him about where this stands in relation to the
Partnership Council. I beg to move.
A privilege amendment was made.
11:23:00
Bill passed and sent to the Commons.
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