Asked by
To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of
the Sports Council Equalities Group’s Guidance for Transgender
Inclusion in Domestic Sport, published on 30 September, and in
particular the conclusion that “the inclusion of transgender
people into female sport cannot be balanced regarding transgender
inclusion, fairness and safety in gender-affected sport where
there is meaningful competition”.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for
Digital, Culture, Media and Sport ( of Whitley Bay) (Con)
My Lords, the Government are committed to promoting diversity and
inclusion, as well as safety and fairness, across all levels of
sport. We believe that this guidance is well researched and well
considered. It acknowledges the complexity of balancing
inclusion, fairness and safety and it provides a decision-making
framework to help individual sports decide what is right for
their circumstances. It thereby helps to address a gap which has
been present for too long in the sports sector.
(Lab)
My Lords, I thank the Minister for that response and I declare my
interest as a former chairman of the Football Association. In
2009, we successfully invested £11 million to boost a brilliant
sport: women’s football. As with all sports, the aim was to
compete in a fair way and to do it with integrity, player safety
and inclusion. The Sports Council Equality Group’s report makes
it undeniably clear that including male-bodied transgender people
in most female sports vitiates these principles and will
undermine those sports. Sports administrators admit that their
current confused approach is not fit for purpose but they fear an
angry response. Will the Minister meet me and other sports
administrators to generate advice on securing appropriate
transgender involvement while protecting the fairness and safety
of female sports—advice which will wholly guarantee women’s
genuine sporting competition and integrity?
of Whitley Bay (Con)
My Lords, if I may, I will start with the very opening words of
the foreword from this guidance:
“We want sport to be a place where everyone can be themselves,
where everyone can take part and where everyone is treated with
kindness, dignity and respect.”
The guidance is based on evidence and research and it took a lot
of views and consultation. It is right that sports bodies have
their own rules and will work on implementing these in relation
to their own sport. It probably will not be for me to meet the
noble Lord, but I will certainly take the request back to the
Sports Minister and I am sure he will be happy to have that
meeting.
(Con)
My Lords, the latest guidance allows for the possibility of
testosterone suppression to permit transgender women to take part
in women’s sports, but this is costly and intrusive for them and
does not guarantee fairness for women. Does my noble friend agree
that for almost all sports, the only rational solution which is
safe and fair for all is to have two categories: an open category
for everyone and one reserved for natal women only?
of Whitley Bay (Con)
The guidance looks into the question of testosterone suppression,
and many people working or competing in sport do not consider
that that has created fairness or safety in their individual
sports. The evidence is clear that there are retained advantages
in strength, stamina and physique for the average transgender
women, with or without testosterone suppression; that has not
proved the silver bullet that many hoped it would be. That is why
the sports councils are encouraging governing bodies to consider
alternative approaches for their sport. In some cases that will
be universal participation and in others it will not, but it is
right that they do that on a case-by-case basis.
(Non-Afl)
My Lords, I do not refer to the debate around this question but I
am deeply concerned about the public debate around trans issues
and trans women in particular, and the continuous depiction of
them as a threat. Therefore, does the Minister agree that
whenever we raise issues with regard to any minority, we should
be specific and evidence-based and should never knowingly or
unwittingly fuel prejudice, hatred or misrepresentation,
especially against minorities such as trans women, who daily face
dangerous defamation and misrepresentation?
of Whitley Bay (Con)
I strongly agree with the noble Lord and I am pleased to say that
the sports councils’ work has followed that approach. The
intention of their guidance is to encourage sports to think in
innovative ways to ensure that nobody is left out. I am mindful
that these exchanges will be followed by many people affected on
a personal level, so I want everyone to hear very clearly that we
want everybody to have every opportunity to enjoy, compete in and
excel in sport.
(Lab)
My Lords, does not that mean that we should ensure that there is
a way to have full, open and tolerant debate; and that those
organisations that proselytise a “no debate” concept and accuse
people who raise legitimate issues of being transphobic should
desist? The Minister cannot instruct sports organisations what to
do; he can encourage them to have courage to take on board what
is in this guidance.
of Whitley Bay (Con)
Again, I agree with the noble Lord about the importance of
tolerant debate, such as we have in your Lordships’ House. As the
sports councils say in their guidance:
“We hope to see sports bodies across the UK engaging in the
conversation in a respectful way and develop policies in this
area which help facilitate access for everyone to
participate.”
A number of governing bodies have already said what they will do
in the light of it, and we encourage others to look at it as
well.
(LD)
My Lords, the report seems a fairly reasonable attempt to try to
square a circle between the safety and integrity of sport and the
right of inclusion. Will the Government assist those governing
bodies in making sure that they do not have a policy that
excludes people from low-level recreational sport if they are in
the trans category? Will they also ensure that it is not used in
any way to restrict people in sports where men and women compete
on even terms? I refer to the equestrian sports as a starting
point.
of Whitley Bay (Con)
Yes, I agree. The sports councils’ guidance supports that as
well, as it aims to help governing bodies determine the right
position for their particular sport. As the guidance says,
“what is right for one sport may not be right for another.”
Of course, it looks at low-level and recreational sport as well
as competitive sport, and that is a job for the governing bodies
then to take forward in relation to their sport.
(Lab)
My Lords, for many of us, sport is a unifying force, whether it
is taking to the pitch with a diverse group of teammates or
supporting a team from the grandstand. As the Sports Council
Equality Group noted, the two main views on this matter “couldn’t
be reconciled”, requiring
“a reset and fresh thinking.”
Rather than attempting to shut down this exercise, as some might,
does the Minister endorse the group’s suggestion that individual
sports explore whether more than one version of their sport can
be offered in order to meet different aims?
of Whitley Bay (Con)
Yes, as the guidance says, there can be no one-size-fits-all
approach that covers every sport at every level in the country,
and that is why it is right that the governing bodies look at
what might be appropriate in their particular sport, so that they
can balance, as far as they can, inclusion, safety and
fairness.
(Con)
My Lords, allegedly, the Ministry of Defence’s inclusive language
guide, which quotes verbatim from Stonewall, advises staff to
take care using “female”. The aim is to avoid erasing
gender-nonconforming people and members of the trans community.
As this risks erasing women instead, and cuts across the Defence
Secretary’s drive for the military to become more
female-friendly, is this an example of a lobbying group
obstructing the policy of the elected Government?
of Whitley Bay (Con)
I will leave colleagues in the Ministry of Defence to answer
about their guide, but the sports councils’ guidance does not
contain this wording or offer any advice on language. It aims to
helps sports consider how to be inclusive without erasing
anybody.
of Newport (Lab)
I am sure that the Minister would agree that we should do all we
can to increase participation in sport, so does he share the
aspiration of the five sports councils to see increased
transgender participation in sport and support their message to
create novel or modified versions of some sports to increase
inclusion?
of Whitley Bay (Con)
Yes, increasing everybody’s participation in sport is the main
aim of the Government’s strategy, Sporting Future, so I certainly
support the message from the sports councils to individual
governing bodies to think in innovative and creative ways to
ensure that no one is left out. As the noble Baroness says, that
might involve novel or modified versions of their sport. Creating
the right environment is important so that everybody, whoever
they are, can take part and get active.
(Non-Afl)
My Lords, it is clear that trans women cannot belong in the
female sports category because they have a male performative
advantage, however they identify, which is inherently unfair.
Obviously, trans women should be able to compete fairly in sport.
Will the Minister meet Dr Nicola Williams and colleagues from
Fair Play for Women, which has some excellent, detailed proposals
for including trans people in sport without disadvantaging women,
and is courageous enough to open up the debate, not close it
down?
of Whitley Bay (Con)
My Lords, this varies from sport to sport. I took part in your
Lordships’ full-bore rifle shooting match against the other
place, which I regret to say that we lost. That is a sport on
which men and women already compete on an equal basis. Some
sports are games of skill, some of stamina and some of strength.
That is why it is right that there is a case-by-case approach for
each sport. I will take forward the meeting suggestion, as I did
for the noble Lord, .
(Non-Afl)
My Lords, sport really does have the power to change lives. I saw
that when I was Sports Minister. Competition is also hugely
important for enjoyment in sport, but it must be fair and it must
be seen to be fair. Does the Minister agree that the evidence
increasingly suggests that the approach of simply measuring
testosterone levels in the blood does not take into account the
full breadth of biological differences between those who have
gone through male versus female puberty, and that this can lead
to unfairness in competitive sport?
of Whitley Bay (Con)
As I said, the sports councils looked into this and said that
“the research that we currently have shows that testosterone
reduction or suppression does not negate all the physiological
advantages of having developed testosterone-driven strength,
stamina and physique.”
That is why the advice to the individual governing bodies is to
look at what is right for their sport and to balance inclusion
with fairness and safety, so that people can enjoy sport, whether
it is competitive or recreational.
