International Travel
Mr Speaker
Order. I wish to make a short statement before we take the next
urgent question. Last Thursday evening, the Government announced
changes to the countries listed on the green and red travel
lists. They also announced that they intended that fully
vaccinated UK residents returning from amber list countries would
not have to isolate from later in the summer. These are important
announcements. They should be made to this House first. The fact
that Transport Ministers were answering oral questions in the
Chamber that morning only strengthens the case.
Although I do not have to explain my reasons for allowing the
urgent question, in this case I want to say to those on the
Government Benches that if Ministers choose to make important
announcements outside this Chamber first, they must not be
surprised that I will grant urgent questions on those matters. In
fact, I will just continue to grant them on the basis that there
may be a statement, because it seems that this Chamber is being
ridden over roughshod. I will continue to make sure that this
House gets an opportunity to scrutinise the Government, but it
would be better for all concerned if the Government simply
followed their own ministerial code and made important
announcements to this House, to which Members are elected to
represent their constituents and to ensure that Ministers and
Secretaries of State can be scrutinised with questions—not via
the media, but via MPs.
I call to ask the urgent question.
13:28:00
(Oldham West and Royton) (Lab/Co-op)
(Urgent Question): To ask the Secretary of State for Transport if
he will make a statement on the Government’s plans for
international travel.
The Secretary of State for Transport ()
After 15 months of restrictions and lockdowns, I know that
everybody in the House is determined to get this pandemic behind
us, so that we might finally begin to think about returning to
some sort of normality. Decisions over how to control our borders
during these unprecedented times are of course never easy. In
everything we do, the overwhelming priority is to protect the
public and the hard-won gains that have been made.
Last week, in recognition of the hugely successfully vaccination
programme, we were able to confirm that in the future, when I
will certainly return to the House, fully vaccinated people will
be able to avoid quarantine when they return from countries on
the amber list.
I want to be realistic with the House: this is a complicated
policy that requires time to work through. First, the Joint
Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation has yet to opine on
whether children should be part of a vaccination programme. They
are not at present, and we must resolve how children would
therefore be treated under a programme that enabled people to
travel without vaccinations.
Next is the question of what to do for people who cannot be
vaccinated for medical reasons or are perhaps on one of the
non-standard vaccine trials. That accounts for around half a
million people and we need to work out what to do in that
respect.
There is also the question of how to recognise vaccine status at
ports and airports. That is easier for people who have been
vaccinated in the UK, because the main NHS app—I should stress
that I am not talking about the test and trace app—can already
display a person’s vaccine status, but it is less easy to prove
for someone coming from overseas, particularly if their country
has a paper-based system.
As a result of all this work, we will announce to the House when
we are ready to make these decisions in order to bring this
system into place. It will most likely be phased in for UK
residents first.
As has been said, we have confirmed changes to the traffic light
system, which take place tonight, at 4 am. That will change the
countries that are on the red and the green lists. There are some
complications with establishing the list on a UK-wide basis,
including with the devolved Administrations. Once the decisions
have been made, it is also very difficult not to have them escape
from the various different Administrations, so I apologise to the
House for not always being able to get here first before I start
to read of them in the newspapers. In this particular case, I
heard them instantaneously—or within an hour or so, I should
say—from the devolved Administrations elsewhere in the UK,
meaning that the story was already out there. Malta, Madeira, the
Balearic islands and several UK overseas territories and
Caribbean islands will be added to the green list, while a
further six countries will move to the red category, as we
continue to adapt our system.
Our border regime is one of the toughest in the world and I know,
from chairing meetings of the G7 Transport Ministers, that it is
closely tracked and in some cases followed by other countries. We
are now focused on the long-term issue of how to keep our country
safe while getting international travel back up and running.
These decisions are not easy and will not be enhanced by
simplistic calls to stick countries on either a red list or a
green list without providing the level of detail that the amber
list helps to provide. In comparison, this Government are taking
a cautious, evidence-based approach. I will return to the House
with more information once we are aware of the details.
Thank you, Mr Speaker, for granting this urgent question. As you
pointed out, it was unacceptable that the Government were not
willing to come to the House to make the announcement when the
traffic light system was reviewed last week. Thank you so much
for your robust defence of Parliament on this matter.
Passengers and the industry want to see a clear plan of action,
supported by transparent data and with measured interventions to
balance the urgent need to keep our borders safe with the desire
to support aviation and tourism.
First, on data and country-by-country assessment, I urge the
Secretary of State to publish not only the decision-making
criteria for the traffic light system but, importantly, the
analysis that underpins it.
We have been pushing for the Government to show international
leadership, but so far they have failed to step up. Why will they
not bring forward concrete plans for an international vaccine
passport that will be accepted by key destination countries?
International co-operation is key to getting travel back up and
running again, yet the Prime Minister missed a golden opportunity
at the G7, including with the US. What progress has been made on
reaching an agreement to see the safe return of transatlantic
travel?
As much as we want to see more countries added to the green list,
we also want to see a robust red list. Given that the easing of
restrictions has been delayed throughout the country, will the
Secretary of State now commit to reviewing the decision not to
place India on the red list, so that lessons can be learned?
Labour’s position is clear: we have set out a sectoral deal and a
simplified red and green list, supported by clear
country-by-country assessment that shows the clear direction of
travel. The Government also promised a sectoral deal, so when can
the industry expect to see that promised sectoral deal? In the
early days of this pandemic the public were willing to support
the Government as they learnt on the job but, frankly, patience
has run out. It is important that action is taken, and taken now.
First, it is worth saying that I keep hearing the hon. Gentleman
calling for the data to be published. For his ease, I have been
to the gov.uk website and checked it for him. The JCVI and Public
Health England do indeed publish their methodology and the data
behind it for each of these countries. It is already published.
For the sake of the time of the House, I will not run through it,
but it is there for him to see.
The hon. Gentleman calls for a passport that could be used for
people who are double-vaccinated, yet at the same time his policy
is to put every single country in the red list. That would mean
that somebody who was able to visit a dying relative in an amber
list country would now have the cost and expense of returning to
Government quarantine in order to just go on that mercy mission.
I think that what he is suggesting is quite cruel.
The hon. Gentleman asks about the progress on the US-UK working
group. I can confirm that it took place for the first time last
Thursday and progress is being made. That is an officials-level
meeting and they will say more when they are ready to. There is a
whole series of complexities to resolve. For example, the US does
not currently recognise AstraZeneca because AstraZeneca has not
applied for the licence. On the other side, we do not have any
particular system to recognise vaccine status from the United
States, because it does not have a digitised system, as we do
with our NHS—it has 50 separate systems—so there are
complexities.
India has been discussed many times, but I remind the hon.
Gentleman again that it went on our red list a week before it
became a variant of interest and two weeks before it became a
variant of concern, so it is simply not the case that it was not
already on the red list. Even when it was on the amber list,
people had to take a test before they came here. They had to take
a test when they got here, on day two and on day eight. They had
to quarantine. It is worth looking at those facts.
The hon. Gentleman again calls for the red and green list. He
wants to scrap the amber list. He wants to simplify it, no doubt
before claiming that we should publish yet more detail, but it
simply does not make sense. He cannot stand up and call for
further support for airlines and the aviation sector while
deliberately trying to ensure that pretty much every person who
comes to this country has to go to Government quarantine hotels.
It simply does not stack up.
The hon. Gentleman asks about support for the aviation and travel
sectors. They have indeed been at the forefront of this pandemic
and £7 billion of support is being provided. We are continuing to
do our bit. But the best support of all that we can provide is to
get international travel running again. That means not taking all
the countries in the amber list and sticking them in the red
list.
(Bexhill and Battle) (Con)
Thank you very much indeed, Mr Speaker, for giving us this
opportunity to scrutinise. You have constituents who are impacted
and they should know that you have given them a voice in this
place.
I also thank the hon. Member for Oldham West and Royton
() for giving us this opportunity. I disagree with his
suggestion that we turn the amber list to red. I believe it
should be turned to green, because we have a successful
vaccination programme and our NHS app. We know that the Secretary
of State is pushing for that to happen later in the summer, and
therein lies my question. For the domestic restrictions being
eased, we have a road map with data and dates. For international
travel, can we have the equivalent—a flight path—so we know what
is going to happen, when and by what measure? Perhaps I could ask
him to give us a little more detail now, but also consider
whether he would be willing to give a little more certainty to
industry and passengers alike.
I will certainly be very pleased to return to this House with
further details as soon as next month. I explained in my opening
remarks that there are quite a number of complexities to do with
how we treat children and younger people who have not yet had the
opportunity to have two vaccinations. Although we will have
everybody on a single vaccination, promised by 19 July, there
will still be significant numbers who would not be able to travel
under that system, so there are a lot of fairness issues to
resolve too. However, like my hon. Friend, I share the absolute
desire to return international travel as soon as we practically
can to something as close as possible to normality, while
recognising that it is important that we ensure that variants of
concern are properly monitored and not brought into this country.
One of the problems that we have is that no other country in the
world sequences the genome at the rate that we do, which means
that it is sometimes very difficult to tell what is happening in
other countries, so we sometimes have to be cautious, but I will
return to this House.
(Paisley and Renfrewshire North) (SNP) [V]
Aviation is the hardest-hit sector, according to the Office for
National Statistics. One third of the 6,000 jobs based at Glasgow
airport and countless more in the supply chain are gone, a
proportion that is common in the sector. In business travel, 60%
of workers have gone and of those who remain, 80% are on
furlough, and that is the key point: hundreds of thousands of
jobs have gone while there is a job retention scheme in place.
This is the 36th time I have asked about support for the aviation
sector since the start of the pandemic, back in the day when the
Secretary of State was boasting of saving Flybe and the
Chancellor was promising a sector-specific deal. With many parts
of Europe now wary of the UK delta variant outbreak, five bleak
winters in a row beckon for the sector. Are the Government
finally considering keeping their word on grant support and
extending its limited and capped business rates support to at
least match the duration of the unlimited cover in Scotland?
Crucially, is the Secretary of State lobbying the Treasury to
extend furlough for the sector? Finally, does the clinical advice
given to the Government fully support these decisions on double
vaccines for travellers and travel to amber list countries?
I pay tribute to the hon. Gentleman, who often speaks up for
aviation, given the airport-constituency connection that he has.
I point out again that we have provided billions of pounds of
support for the aviation sector, including to the Scottish
aviation sector, through money that has gone from the furlough
programme, for example.
The hon. Gentleman asked a series of questions, and I fear I may
have to redirect him in some cases to his own Scottish
Government, because I have the Scottish airports constantly on
the line to me complaining about the actions of the Scottish
Government, who seem to do everything they possibly can to make
it harder for airlines and airports to see a route to a recovery.
That said, there was a strong degree of work together to bring in
the latest changes to the traffic light system.
(Crawley) (Con) [V]
If we do not have a meaningful summer of transatlantic
operations, it will cost the UK economy an estimated £2.5 billion
and mean up to 52,000 jobs are lost, so may I encourage my right
hon. Friend to make sure that we press for that UK-US taskforce
on opening up international travel to conclude as soon as
possible?
My hon. Friend, who has done a great deal to support the aviation
sector, is absolutely right. The Prime Minister and the President
announced the working group. As I mentioned before, it has
already met, and it is working on the details of trying to reopen
international travel. We are faced with a section 212(f)
executive order that was brought in by the previous American
Administration and has not been rescinded by the current one. We
need to see that removed, in addition to sorting some of the
complexities of accepting vaccine status both ways around. Our
officials are working on that at pace, and I look forward to
further developments.
(Richmond Park) (LD) [V]
Does the Secretary of State agree that restrictions on UK
citizens’ travel is not just from the rules from his own
Department, but from the entry requirements imposed by some of
our international partners? Malta, for example, may well be on
our green list, but it will not allow in anybody over the age of
12 who has not received both jabs. As he will know, no one under
the age of 18 in the UK can receive both jabs yet. There are
reports this morning that the negotiations on the UK-US air
bridge have faltered because of concerns in the US about rising
rates of the delta variant in the UK. Can the Secretary of State
confirm what conversations he is having with the new Secretary of
State for Health and Social Care about attempts to combat the
rise of the delta variant in this country, so that we can give
greater confidence to our international partners and enable them
to relax some of their restrictions?
The hon. Lady is absolutely right to be concerned about the delta
variant, but the reason we know about the delta variant in this
country is that we sequence around 50% of all the positive PCR
cases we pick up. No country in the world is getting close to
that. It is just a few per cent. in, for example, France, Germany
and elsewhere, so I suspect that some of the delta variant is
simply knowing about the delta variant being present. We are
working with partners internationally to encourage more to
sequence the variant and then upload it to the GISAID website,
which is internationally recognised, so that everyone can see
what is going on. By doing so, we will be able to have a more
transparent system to get aviation going faster.
The hon. Lady also asked about conversations. I have already
spoken to the new Health Secretary. We are both very keen to open
this up, but we must do so in a way that is as safe as possible.
(Stoke-on-Trent North) (Con)
This morning I caught up with owners Heidi and Andy from Oasis
Travel, an independent travel agent in Tunstall, to hear what
they need from my right hon. Friend to help them to recover from
the pandemic, and the key thing was clarity. So will he reassure
Heidi and Andy from Oasis Travel that we can make the guidance
more simple and clear, giving confidence both to travel agents
and the residents of Stoke-on-Trent, Kidsgrove and Talke about
the rules when going for a long overdue summer break?
My hon. Friend is absolutely right about clarity on this. That is
why a traffic light system—followed, as I have mentioned, by
other countries; France, for example, has introduced one since we
introduced ours—makes sense. Everyone understands red, amber and
green. We have talked about the desire to bring in a system that
also uses the benefits of double vaccination that will overlay
that. For the benefit of his constituents at Oasis Travel, we are
looking not only at the country but at individuals’ status in
order to provide greater clarity and to be able to open up as
much as possible for summer.
(Rutherglen
and Hamilton West) (Ind)
The travel sector, particularly the business travel sector, sees
the reopening of US-UK travel as vital to being viable. Will the
Secretary of State update the House on who sits on the US-UK
travel taskforce, when it will publish its recommendations, and
whether the reports of concerns over the Oxford AstraZeneca
vaccine in the press this week will have any impact?
Yes, I can provide a bit more detail. The group is chaired at
Cabinet Office level and the equivalent in the United States. It
was, as the hon. Lady will know, set up by the President and the
Prime Minister at the G7. There has not been a specific date
provided for publishing the group’s work, but it meets on a
weekly basis. I urge her and others to discount what they read in
the newspapers. I did not recognise the output that I saw in the
stories this morning other than that it is true that there are
issues that I have mentioned at the Dispatch Box about
recognition in both directions. These are very real problems.
There are 50 states in America and they all use different systems
for showing whether people are fully vaccinated—to throw another
one into the pot. However, we are working very closely together
and the desire is there between the US and the UK to normalise
travel again.
(York Outer) (Con) [V]
The Government’s intention to scrap quarantine restrictions for
fully vaccinated people arriving from amber list countries is
very welcome, but can I stress to my right hon. Friend how
important it is to have clarity over the timings now instead of
later in the summer? Ideally we need this in place at the start
of the school holidays to give families the confidence to book
and to ensure that it has the maximum impact in helping the
travel sector to recover. I do not have to tell him that if it is
delayed for too long, the summer for the travel sector will be
lost, and that will have huge financial implications for the
sector.
I do recognise the desire to see the system clarified. I went to
some lengths in my opening remarks to explain that we have some
issues that we need to resolve, including what the JCVI is going
to recommend when it finishes opining over whether children
should be vaccinated, and, without knowing the answer to that,
what alternative system would be in place. As Members have
mentioned, we have already seen Malta, for example, putting in
place its own restrictions on children at the particular age of
12. There are complexities to deal with. However, I hear what my
hon. Friend and others have said about the desire for clarity. I
will return to this House once we have made progress and make
sure that he is here to hear it first.
(Pontypridd) (Lab)
UK airlines, excluding the wider aviation sector, have announced
over 30,000 job cuts so far, and that is before we even consider
the wider supply chain in the aviation sector. British Airways
and General Electric are based in my constituency and are major
employers for Pontypridd and Taff-Ely. Both have had to make
significant job cuts in difficult circumstances, and I fear that
there could be more on the horizon. Labour has consistently
called for a sectoral deal that secures jobs and protects the
aviation supply chain. Thousands of jobs depend on it. Why will
not Ministers give aviation the support that they promised?
I have to say, we are providing £7 billion of support. The hon.
Lady says that the Opposition have consistently called for
support, but that is not the case. The former shadow Chancellor,
the hon. Member for Oxford East (), said:
“we can no longer accept public funds paying for projects that
make the shift to zero”
carbon harder. In other words, she was not prepared to support
the aviation sector, as we have done. [Interruption.] It is on
record. I understand the perspective of the hon. Member for
Pontypridd (), and I agree with her as it happens, but the
Opposition’s policy has been all over the place.
(Wantage) (Con)
Travel companies in my constituency such as Full Circle and Comfy
Class are understandably keen to have more countries on the green
list. I appreciate that there is a balance, because I have also
had emails from constituents concerned that if we move too
quickly, we could end up with further restrictions here. However,
will my right hon. Friend reassure the companies in my
constituency and elsewhere that it is still his aspiration to get
as many countries on the green list as soon as he can, providing
it is safe to do so?
That is absolutely the case. I want to reassure my hon. Friend
and the whole House that I wish to see travel reopened—I am the
Secretary of State for Transport; I want to see transport
operating. No one comes into this job to try to close down
travel. We have to be realistic about the pandemic, which is
global in nature and is still running at record rates around the
world beyond our shores. It is tempting to think it is over
because we have managed to vaccinate such a high proportion of
our own population, but no other major economy has done the same
thing. However, I can provide my hon. Friend with the reassurance
that we are moving on this as fast as we possibly can. Subject to
the expert advice, I am looking forward to working with my right
hon. Friend the new Health Secretary to move things along.
(Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)
What I picked up on a recent visit to Heathrow with the Home
Affairs Committee was that the Government always seem to be
behind the curve. They always seems to be having to deal with the
current crisis and not thinking ahead to what the next crisis
will be in travel, particularly at the borders. We have heard
lots of reasons today why it is all very difficult for the
Secretary of State to come with a plan, but can he give a firm
date for when he will have a clear plan, which is what the public
are really calling for, along with the travel industry?
I hear the calls for clarity, and I appreciate what the hon. Lady
is saying, but is she suggesting that we should leave children
behind this summer? Should people who have not been vaccinated be
able to travel? How would she know whether an inward traveller
coming here from another country had been vaccinated if we do not
have a digital certificate from them? These are not abstract
questions; they are real questions that have to be added to what
the scientists know or do not know about the ability of somebody
with coronavirus to get it again and/or carry it—just ask Nick
Robinson what happened to him. Make no mistake: I want to get
things opened up as quickly as possible—that is my intention and
desire—but we cannot throw caution to the wind and risk going
backwards by bringing in a new variant of concern because of all
the calls to simply ignore the facts.
(Beckenham)
(Con)
I thank my right hon. Friend for that last answer, and I accept
it. However, I went to Gibraltar for the weekend of 11 to 14 June
and was astonished by the hoops I had to go through on return
from the green Rock. I had to take three tests and fill out a
very complex passenger locator form to come home. Given that
nearly 49% of our population have now been double vaccinated,
will my right hon. Friend have a look at reducing the cost, the
bureaucracy and the time wasting that occurs when people return
to the UK from even the safest countries, such as the Rock of
Gibraltar, which is a green area?
I am pleased to tell my hon. Friend that he should not have
needed to take three tests. Returning from a green country, he
would simply be required to fill in his passenger locator form,
take a pre-departure test and then a single test on day two. That
is used for sequencing the genome, which we have spoken about a
lot—I know that other countries are not as interested as we have
been in that subject.
My hon. Friend is absolutely right about driving down the cost. I
was pleased to see on the website yesterday that there are now
costs in the £20, £30 and £40 range, rather than the very high
costs previously. We have now organised the website so that
people can search by region and cost, in order to buy a package
that suits their pocket. I agree with him about driving down the
costs and driving out the bureaucracy, linking up the passenger
locator form with the gates, so that when he comes through the
border, he is not stopped specifically because of his travel.
(Glasgow Central) (SNP) [V]
Mark Tanzer, of ABTA, told the Treasury Committee that 44% of
ABTA members anticipate more redundancies as furlough tapers off.
This is an avoidable harm, so may I ask the Transport Committee
what conversations he has had with the Chancellor on continuing
furlough at the full 80% rate, at least for travel and tourism?
I always have ongoing conversations and that is one thing that
has led to furlough being available—and not only that, but a
scheme that has, in essence, paid the business rates for all the
major airports in this country, apart from the very largest two
or three. That has been extended again for a further six months
as well. The best way we can get this resolved is to get travel
going again, and our level of vaccination means that that can
happen; thanks to the UK Government, everybody throughout the UK
is enjoying the highest level of vaccination of any major
economy.
(Stourbridge) (Con)
Our historic vaccine programme has meant that we have been able
to begin safely reopening international travel, and I must add
that my constituency has truly led the way on the vaccination
programme lately, and I must thank all those involved for that.
Does my right hon. Friend agree that it is right, however, that
we take a cautious approach, so that we do not jeopardise the
enormous sacrifices and gains made by the British people in the
past year? Of course, that will mean that next year we can travel
safely for the World cup, as, I hope, the rightful winners of the
euros this year.
My hon. Friend is absolutely right, and the only caveat I would
add is that I am really keen to see us open up—we want to see it
happen and we are going to put all the measures in place to try
to do that. One frustration I think we all feel in this House is
that because we have managed to get ourselves vaccinated and
because we are sequencing the genome to such an extent, it is
tempting to think that the entire world is already there. Sadly,
that is not the case; we are waiting for others to catch up. So
she is right to say that we need to take a cautious approach, but
none the less it is one that will start to see benefits for this
country and people who want to travel.
(Chesterfield) (Lab)
The threat to the travel and tourism industry is very real. Just
this week, I met constituents who normally work on aircraft but
now have either been furloughed or in some cases made redundant
several months ago and they are extremely concerned about the
ongoing future of the industry. So it is regrettable that the
Transport Secretary should seek to misrepresent the position of
my hon. Friend the Member for Oldham West and Royton () in terms of recognising an increase in the number of
nations on the green list, seeking clarification of the system
and calling for international co-operation on vaccine passports,
which can give real certainty to the industry and confidence to
holidaymakers, so that we can try to save some of these crucial
jobs in our industry.
On the contrary, I have been listening carefully to what the hon.
Member for Oldham West has had to say from the Front Bench. A few
days ago, he was challenged about how many countries should go on
to the green list and he said, “Well, from our point of view it
has got to be about the science.” He said that he cannot give an
exact number and that we have to take the expert advice—what on
earth does he think we have been doing all these months?
(Tewkesbury) (Con)
My constituency has a lot of aerospace manufacturing, which is
suffering the knock-back from the lack of international travel.
At a recent meeting with pilots from my constituency, I was told
that the additions to the green list will up their business to
only 10% of their capacity, so they really are struggling. They
asked whether we could avoid any last-minute changes to policy
and give people as much notice as possible. I need to stress that
they were asking for a date on which double-vaccinated people
would be able to travel a lot more freely. I said I would pass
those messages on, which I have done.
I am grateful for the direct message. Sadly, the pandemic and the
virus do not give us much advance notice; we often find that a
country is on the green list and we need to move it, as we saw
with Portugal and Spain with the travel corridors last year. One
thing that we have done to provide a little more forward guidance
is use the green watch list, the purpose of which is to help my
hon. Friend’s constituents to see when a country may be a bit
closer to the amber border and when they would therefore want to
be more aware. I hope that that provides a bit of additional
guidance, but I will return to the House next month with more
details of what double vaccination can mean for people and for
the travel industry.
(North Durham) (Lab)
The Prime Minister has acknowledged that this summer will not be
typical with regard to international travel. Regional airports
such as Newcastle International rely on the summer season to
generate the bulk of their revenue and tide them over during the
quiet periods in the winter. Will the Secretary of State look
particularly at regional airports this winter? What support can
they be given to ensure that not generating revenue over the
summer does not lead them into difficulty later in the year, once
international travel has opened up?
The right hon. Gentleman is absolutely right to point out the
struggle for regional airports in particular. They do not have
pockets as deep as those of some of the very large airports,
which of course are also struggling. They have had their business
rates paid, as in the case of Newcastle, for the entirety of the
pandemic so far; that has been extended for a further six months
and they have also had the furlough scheme and various loans
available. The best thing that we can do for them is get travel
reopened, and that is everything we are focused on now.
(Gainsborough) (Con)
Over the weekend, we had the full panoply of the Stasi state with
its pettifogging prying into people’s private lives, including
show trials, denunciation, hidden cameras and inevitable
hypocrisy and rule-breaking. Like the Secretary of State, I would
like a lot more international travel and I am very relaxed, but
as the Government seem to panic at the slightest rise in
infections, when the Secretary of State argues his case in the
Cabinet, will he please not put freedom day at risk? Will he
please not risk any return to these fatuous restrictions over the
winter? There has to be a balance. Better controls at the border
than destroying our freedom at home.
I think it is true to say, as I mentioned in my opening remarks,
that people are fed up with the restrictions. The good news is
that the evidence clearly shows divergence between the number of
cases, the number of people going into hospital and—thank
goodness—the number of deaths, so I have high confidence that 19
July will be the date. I look forward to people being able to
regain some of the freedoms that have been too sadly lost over
the past year and a half.
(North
Ayrshire and Arran) (SNP)
The Secretary of State said in his statement that
“this is a complicated policy that requires time to work
through”,
but today he has pointedly and repeatedly failed to commit to
additional support for the beleaguered travel sector until the
return of free travel can be re-established. Does he understand
the disappointment and anger at the failure to extend additional
support to the travel industry to prevent the potential loss of
tens of thousands more jobs?
The hon. Lady perhaps did not hear me mention that we are paying
the entirety of the business rates bill for every airport—I must
check the facts here—in England. I hope that the same is
happening under the Scottish Government in Scotland. We are
paying the bills through the furlough scheme of all the employees
in the sector, both in airports and in the airlines. We have been
providing financing—billions of pounds, in fact—to enable
airports and airlines to keep themselves afloat through this
crisis. I have to say that when it comes to these discussions,
invariably the people who most do not want to restart travel tend
to be the Government in Scotland, so I am a little surprised to
hear the hon. Lady’s comments.
(Rugby)
(Con) [V]
The travel sector has had to deal with more disruption from the
pandemic than most as countries are added and then taken away
from different coloured lists. Travel agents have been
particularly affected as customers book, then cancel their
holidays. Will my right hon. Friend ensure that they receive the
support that they need to enable those businesses to survive at
this most difficult time?
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Businesses across the travel
industry have been drawing on the £350 billion-worth of grants
and loans, VAT deferrals, the furlough scheme and much else
besides. The best thing we can do is get the country flying again
and get people moving again. Our exemplary progress with the
vaccination roll-out gives us the best opportunity of that
happening sooner rather than later.
(Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford) (Lab)
As the vaccine rolls out and as international travel increases,
if we are to prevent new variants from sending us back to square
one, there needs to be an effective surveillance system with
transparent analysis built in so that there can be swift action.
We do not have that effective system at the moment, as we have
seen from the fact that the delta variant has whipped around the
country and is now closing schools and preventing UK residents
from travelling abroad because people do not want it to spread.
We must improve that system and not be in a situation whereby so
many cases can arrive in a country before preventive measures are
taken. Will the Secretary of State agree, as part of improving
that system, to finally start publishing the Joint Biosecurity
Centre’s analyses—not just the arrivals data, but the analyses of
what is happening in other countries? The Scientific Group for
Emergencies papers are published. We have been calling for the
Joint Biosecurity Centre’s papers to be published for almost a
year. Please publish them now. What has the Secretary of State
got to hide?
The right hon. Lady is absolutely right about the need to prevent
the variants. Our surveillance system, which involves our
sequencing the genome more than any other country in the world,
as I know she appreciates, is a big part of that. We frequently
find that we know about overseas variants before the host country
and consequently we often tell them about it first.
I want to ensure that the record of the House is entirely
accurate. I talked about the risk assessment methodology that is
already published online. The methodology includes variant
assessment, triage, risk assessment and outcomes, which inform
ministerial decisions. Under each heading, there is tremendous
detail. For example, triage includes testing rates per 100,000,
weekly instances, test positivity, evidence of overseas variants
under investigation and much else. Then we publish the data on
both the Public Health England and the JBC websites. I invite the
right hon. Lady to look at that data. I think she will also
appreciate that there are times when, for diplomatic reasons, it
would be difficult to publish other countries’ data before they
have done so. However, she will find a wealth of information,
which we are already publishing, on the JBC and PHE websites.
(South Suffolk) (Con)
I thank my right hon. Friend, who is clearly putting in the
effort to try to reopen international travel, but I also echo the
comments of my hon. Friend the Member for Bexhill and Battle
(), the Chair of the Select Committee. We need the
equivalent of the domestic lockdown road map for reopening
international travel. I appreciate that there are complex issues
to resolve on opening travel to the amber list for those who have
been fully vaccinated, but I am sure he realises that if we take
too long to do that, there are travel sector businesses in our
constituencies that will not be there to capitalise.
My hon. Friend is absolutely right and I want the issues that he
raised to be resolved as soon as possible. Perhaps I should
mention that through the G7 and the OECD, we are working to
create internationally recognised systems. At the moment, every
country is going off in its own direction, even among the EU 27,
where there is no agreement on the basic standards for people
moving around the world. He is right and I will be happy to
return here to provide that further clarity.
(Bolton South East) (Lab) [V]
May I refer the House to my interest as chair of the all-party
parliamentary group on Pakistan? Along with Bangladesh, Pakistan
was placed on the red list at the start of April despite a clear
disparity in cases with other nations on the green list that had
high infection rates and variants of concern. I and other APPG
colleagues have requested disclosure of the figures behind that
decision, which we have still not received. The coronavirus
positivity rate in Pakistan has now dropped to 1.78% and there
are no reports of a variant of concern from the nation. Pakistan
has also recently developed the PakVac, which will help in the
fight. First, will the Secretary of State give me a full answer
on why Pakistan was placed on the red list in the first place?
Secondly, when will Pakistan be taken off the red list and placed
on the amber or—ideally—green list?
The point that the hon. Lady and the whole House will wish to
recognise is that last year we were able only to look at the
level of infection, which she rightly mentioned, as the
indication of a country’s position in what is now the traffic
light system. However, as she will see when she looks at the JBC
methodology, it is now far more complex. Many more factors are
taken into account, including in particular the extent to which a
country freely uploads its data to GISAID, the extent to which
sequencing is carried out and the extent to which a country has
vaccinated its domestic population as well as much else besides.
All of that is available on the JBC website. I am happy on her
behalf—I make this offer across the House—to put the authorities
in Pakistan in touch with our scientists in order to better
understand what a country might need to do to find itself back on
the amber or, indeed, green list.
(Vale of
Glamorgan) (Con)
I congratulate my right hon. Friend on the efforts he is making
to open international travel. However, will he look at the rules
associated with passengers entering the United Kingdom from
international hub airports and the added complexity that often
brings? Doha, and Qatar Airways in particular, support many of
the regional airports. He talked about the difficulties in
regional airports and the support needed for those without the
capacity of some of the larger UK airports. Will he consider the
status of passengers who traditionally fly out of those regions?
My right hon. Friend is absolutely right. That follows from the
last question, really. It is no longer about just looking at what
the infection rate is in a particular country; we need to
understand who travels through that country. That can change a
country’s rating, even though otherwise it would be perhaps a
green list country. I refer him to the JBC’s advice, which sets
out in considerable detail the various factors it is looking at.
I extend the offer to countries and territories across the world
to be in touch with us to better understand how we assess their
data. Much of the time, a good hint for them is to be entirely
transparent with the data and upload it to GISAID for sequencing
so that we know that they know their level of variants of
concern.
(Brentford and Isleworth) (Lab) [V]
The communities around Heathrow are hugely dependent on aviation
for jobs, so they have been devastated by the pandemic’s impact
on international travel. Hounslow borough alone has lost 43,000
jobs, with lower-income communities hardest hit, and 22,000
Hounslow residents are still furloughed and worrying about the
end of the scheme in September. Aviation and its supply chain is
not in a position to recover by September, and the Transport
Secretary repeating figures from the general schemes from which
the sector has received support is of no help for the future.
When will Ministers announce the specific sector support they
promised? Will that include a sector-specific extension of
furlough?
I am concerned about the position of airlines and airports and of
the aviation sector generally—the House will be interested to
know that I track it every single week. I am a little concerned
about the hon. Member dismissing £7 billion of support as if it
is not a significant figure as well as, indeed, the bespoke work
done to help airports in particular to pay their rates. She will
appreciate that it is for the Chancellor to come to the House to
explain whether further measures will be taken, and I am sure he
will return to the House when the next Budget and autumn
statement come round.
(Wimbledon) (Con)
I refer the House to my entry in the Register of Members’
Financial Interests. As I have the pleasure of chairing the
all-party parliamentary group on business travel, I particularly
welcome the Department’s recent announcement about quarantine
exemptions for business travellers, but my right hon. Friend will
know that they are restricted to a very small number of
jet-setting multinational executives. The business travel
ecosystem is much wider than that, so will he look again at the
criteria for significant economic benefit, and instead look at
just economic benefit, and set out when he might be able to widen
the exemption to all business travel?
I am very happy to take a further look at it, and my hon. Friend
is right to point to the exemptions that have been provided for
large job-creating travel under very specific and restricted
circumstances. To answer his question, we are best to pursue
fully vaccinated status in order to open up travel further. Of
course, that would apply to businesses as much as it would apply
to everyone else. None the less, that is the route to getting
business and other travel going again.
(Exeter) (Lab)
From the Secretary of State’s response, it is clear he was not
listening to my hon. Friend the Member for Oldham West and Royton
(), who said that Labour supports an expansion of the
green list and that we want the rapid introduction of covid
passports. The Secretary of State claims that it is complicated,
but other Europeans and Americans are already free to travel with
a vaccine passport, a negative test or proof of infection in the
last six months. Why are we less free than they are and less free
than we were last summer, when we did not have the vaccines?
I am tempted to say that we cannot have it both ways. We have to
be vigilant and aware of the risks of travelling to every single
country in the world. Without exception, other countries do fewer
tests of sequencing, so they do not know about variants. I see
that the right hon. Gentleman does not agree, which is fine, but
because they are not doing the sequencing it opens us up to an
unknown degree of risk. [Interruption.] He says “Germany”, but
1.3% of their positive cases are sequenced, whereas we sequence
nearly 50% of our cases—that is a good case in point.
Of course we are looking at what other countries are doing. We
are also making sure that we are talking to them all; I speak to
my counterparts on a regular basis. However, the fact of the
matter is that we have a traffic light system. We need those
countries to be able, ideally, to get into the green category
and, if not, to be able to use the fully vaccinated route in
order to open up travel further.
(Wellingborough)
(Con)
I was a travel agent and tour operator before I came to the
House, and I have great sympathy for the industry. The Secretary
of State will realise that travel is not just about holidays. I
was made aware yesterday of a very sad case of people needing to
travel as soon as possible following a sudden death of a young
relative in the United States of America. In a state of shock,
they wanted to know what they should do. If the Secretary of
State can bring forward travel bridges, especially with the
United States of America, it would help people in such
circumstances.
I want to let my hon. Friend know that, in the very sad case that
he talked about, America’s being on the amber list would allow
them to travel. There is a wider issue with the United States
around executive order 212(f), which prevents travel from the UK,
European nations and many other countries within the previous 14
days, so people may well require special arrangements on the US
side as well. That is not the British Government’s doing, of
course, which is why we are working with the Americans through
the working group to try to remove such impediments.
(Newcastle upon Tyne North) (Lab) [V]
The “wait and see” statement last Thursday just has not given the
vision for international travel that many were hoping for, and it
is not good enough to leave major airports, such as Newcastle
International, in the dark. The outlook looks extremely
challenging, and the Government cannot delay their aviation
recovery plan any longer. The sector needs a comprehensive
package of support to ensure that it can increase global
connectivity and drive growth in our region in a planned way, and
we need Newcastle airport to thrive for that. The Government say
they are committed to global Britain, but when will they start
acting like it?
I urge the hon. Lady to talk to her own Front Benchers, who are
trying to remove the amber list entirely and chuck all those
countries, presumably, into red; the hon. Member for Oldham West
and Royton () is not able to tell us how many would go into green.
Meanwhile, we are supporting Newcastle airport; as I mentioned,
we have paid the entirety of its business rates throughout this
crisis. The best hope of all for it is to get travel going again.
I have said this several times and I do not want to labour the
point, but I will be returning to the House with full details of
exactly how a double-vaccinated—fully vaccinated—status could
help with international travel. I have also tried to explain why
it is not quite as straightforward as the hon. Member for
Newcastle upon Tyne North () might
imagine; for example, what do we do about children, who have not
yet had their vaccination status confirmed?
(East Devon) (Con)
I welcome the decision to loosen travel restrictions on
double-jabbed Brits, but I also agree with other speakers
regarding the need for a clear road map. However, whatever that
road map contains, it will take time for passenger confidence to
recover. Thousands of jobs in the travel industry are still at
stake, so what will my right hon. Friend do to explore all
options for further financial support for the travel industry?
My hon. Friend will know that I have been working with the
Chancellor throughout this crisis, which is how £7 billion-worth
of support has been provided to the travel sector. I also think
it is very important, as my hon. Friend and others have said, to
be able to set out as clear a path as possible to the reopening
of international travel, notwithstanding the fact that,
unfortunately, the virus is raging in different parts of the
world and new variants of interest, at least, and sometimes
variants of concern, are coming about on a monthly basis. We will
do everything we can to put in place a system that involves both
the traffic lights and the double-vaccinated status in order to
provide a sense of certainty—as much as can be done in a global
pandemic—for the aviation sector.
(East Renfrewshire) (SNP)
With greater restrictions being placed on UK travellers to Spain,
Portugal, Germany and Hong Kong, there is no doubt that the
aviation and travel sectors are still in a difficult place. We
have already heard today the chief executive of the Association
of British Travel Agents, Mark Tanzer, tell the Treasury
Committee that 44% of ABTA members anticipate more redundancies
as furlough tapers off. That is on top of 37% of those jobs
already having been lost or being at risk, so action is plainly
necessary. Does the Minister agree that there must be a tailored
package of financial support, crucially including furlough
extension, for the travel sector, as called for by the Travel Day
of Action campaign?
I think the hon. Lady is aware that these are matters for the
Chancellor, and I know that he will be coming to the House at
some point to set out his future plans as we get through this
pandemic.
(Vale of Clwyd) (Con)
My constituent kindly agreed
to participate in the Novavax trial. He was promised that that
would not disadvantage him in any way. He is now fully vaccinated
with Novavax and, restrictions willing, is hoping to go to France
this summer with his family. As the European Medicines Agency has
not yet certified the Novavax vaccine, the trip is now at risk.
Will my right hon. Friend investigate this case as a priority and
do all he can to ensure that Mr Williams can travel with his
family?
Yes, I certainly will.
(North East Fife) (LD)
The changes announced by the Secretary of State will make a
properly functioning test and trace system even more important.
Last week, however, we saw the damning report of the National
Audit Office on the English test and trace system, and just
yesterday responses to a series of freedom of information
requests made by my friend and colleague the MSP for North East
Fife suggested a cover-up by the Scottish Government of failures
in their test and protect scheme. What steps are being taken to
work with the devolved nations on the functioning of testing
regimes, and how will the Secretary of State ensure that those
schemes are not overwhelmed as a result of the changing picture?
One of the very important things that we have been doing is
automating the process of being able, essentially, to track
people no matter where they have come back from. With regard to
international travel, for example, the passenger locator form now
automatically links with someone’s passport and provides
confirmation as they enter, either through an e-gate or through a
Border Force inspector, of where they have come from and
therefore whether they need to self-isolate or quarantine. Those
conversations are ongoing, and I keep in touch with the devolved
Administrations about that on an ongoing basis.
(Thirsk and Malton) (Con)
The Opposition do not seem to be able to name any countries or
destinations they want to add to the green list, but may I
suggest a couple—the Greek islands and the Canaries? Both have
very low infection rates, they are very popular destinations for
UK travellers, and they seem, potentially, to qualify under other
criteria. When might they be added to the green list, and will
they stay there until a variant of concern has been properly
identified?
One thing I know for sure is that it is very difficult to give
guarantees about any countries staying on the green list forever.
That is how I ended up going to Spain and coming back two or
three days later, after I had myself put it in the no-fly
category, as it was at the time. However, I can tell my hon.
Friend for sure that both the Canaries and the Greek islands were
looked at in the last review. The fact that they did not qualify,
as my hon. Friend rightly identifies, is a matter not simply of
their infection rates, but the other criteria clearly set out by
the JBC and available to him and others on the website. It is
more likely to be to do, for example, with their ability to
sequence the genome. We are working hard with countries across
the world, particularly holiday destinations, to let them know
what would be required, and we welcome further contact from them
for them to be able to understand the system we are applying.
(Upper Bann) (DUP) [V]
The Secretary of State will no doubt agree with me that the
support packages provided by the Government—furlough, grant
packages, low interest loans—have been essential in supporting
businesses and industry through the pandemic. With the continued
impact of covid-19 on the aviation and travel industry, can the
Secretary of State outline what representation he has made to the
Chancellor on the part of the travel industry for the extension
of furlough and a much-needed specific tailored grant support
scheme to be provided to sustain jobs and protect the future of
this industry?
The hon. Lady is absolutely right about how essential the package
has been to date, and my conversations with the Chancellor are of
course, as with all Cabinet Ministers, ongoing.
(South West Bedfordshire) (Con) [V]
While we all have huge sympathy for travel companies with very
little income, what action is the Secretary of State going to
take to help people such as my recently widowed constituent who
has had no refund for the holiday she was due to have with her
husband, and not even an acknowledgement of receipt of her
husband’s death certificate?
I am very sorry to hear about that particular case. I have been
putting pressure on the whole sector to do the right thing, and
to provide either vouchers or refunds where people require them.
An essential part of being able to get travel back together is
that people feel, when they book, that they would be able to
rebook, should they need to do so for coronavirus reasons. I am
not familiar with the individual case, but I would be very happy
to follow it up for my hon. Friend.
(South Shields) (Lab)
Throughout the pandemic, the Transport Secretary has treated the
travel industry as an afterthought—delaying decisions, making
vague promises, creating chaos and confusion. Nearly 200,000 jobs
have been lost or are at risk, and countless well-established
high street agencies are now boarded up. Over a year ago, the
Government promised a sector-specific support package. He keeps
referring to £7 billion, yet he knows that that was purely for
the aviation industry, not for travel agencies. ABTA wrote to him
just this week about the lack of support. Why has he failed to
deliver for them?
I have to say that that is a rather disingenuous thing to say
about a Government who have provided furlough for absolutely
everybody in every sector, including the ones the hon. Lady
identifies. The support that the Chancellor has provided has been
incredibly generous. I keep very closely in touch with travel
agents, in my own constituency and across the country, and I
understand the pressures they have been under. No one can pretend
that it has been easy or straightforward, but I strenuously
disagree with the hon. Lady if she is saying that that support
has not been there, because the very fact that we are having this
discussion demonstrates the extent to which we have been out
there working to make sure that people are supported through this
crisis.
(Sedgefield) (Con)
I know that virus detection equipment from Kromek in Sedgefield
is being trialled at both Newcastle and Teesside airports at the
moment, and we hope it will be a valuable tool in the future.
While I appreciate the sacrifices being made by our whole
population to shield the most vulnerable and keep our NHS from
being overwhelmed this year, I do not believe that economic
growth and business should be held back until every adult is able
to travel. Does my right hon. Friend agree that, although those
not fully vaccinated may find it frustrating, we need to open up
international travel for those who are fully vaccinated and safe
to kickstart the rebuilding of the travel economy, for both
businesses such as Mel’s Travel, a recently opened travel agency
in Ferryhill, and workers in places such as Teesside airport?
Where testing is required, the costs need to be reduced very
substantially, especially for children.
The good news is that costs have been coming down, really quite
dramatically, in the past couple of months. I share my hon.
Friend’s enthusiasm and anxiety to get the sector open up as
quickly as possible.
(Aberdeen South) (SNP)
Just this morning, the Department for Transport snuck out the
news that senior business executives will be able to dodge the
quarantine rules relating to the amber list. I am sure the
Secretary of State will want to take this opportunity to advise
the House of the medical miracle that means that the wealthiest
in society are unable to contract or, indeed, transmit covid-19.
Or perhaps he can tell us what we already know: that on the watch
of the Tories, it is simply one rule for the super-rich and
another rule for the rest of us.
What a load of nonsense. I expect that the hon. Gentleman does
not want to see—just taking a random example—the thousands of
jobs created in car plants, just because of his vindictive and
really very narrow view of how the world should operate. It is
absolutely ridiculous. Anybody who is able to come to this
country, for whatever reason, will be under very strict
restrictions. They will require testing and they will be able to
carry out only that specific piece of business. To my mind, if
this helps thousands of people to keep their jobs and get new
jobs, it is well worth while.
(Henley)
(Con)
I am particularly concerned about travel to France. My delegation
to the Council of Europe, most of whom have been
double-vaccinated, and despite having diplomatic status
themselves, are having to wait to represent the UK in person
until France has gone green. What changes does my right hon.
Friend anticipate that could make our travel easier?
I am most anxious to enable my hon. Friend to travel to the
Council of Europe, and I will undertake to speak to my opposite
number, Jean-Baptiste Djebarri, to find out what can be done to
encourage a regime that enables travel to take place more easily,
but we are having to work with what is available to us at the
moment. As France also has a traffic light system in place, I
will do my best to ensure that the two of us can help that visit
to take place.
(Strangford) (DUP)
I thank the Secretary of State for his responses. It is very
difficult to know all the answers to these questions.
There have been mixed messages, with amber or green travel
acceptable for some countries in the EU, while Germany says that
the EU should get together and prevent UK nationals from
travelling. The USA has stated that UK citizens may not travel to
the States before August and may not be able to do so for a
period of time after that, causing much uncertainty. Will the
Secretary of State tell those who book holidays and then have
them cancelled, or those who are on holiday and then have to
quarantine on their return, just when there will be a direct,
honest and clear strategy? With great respect, I have to tell him
that, at this moment, my constituents do not know what they can
or should do when it comes to booking an overseas holiday.
The reality of the situation is that this virus just does not
give us those answers. I wish it would. I hope the hon. Gentleman
can see that, through the combination of the traffic light system
and the forthcoming double-vaccination system—so that it is not
only the place but the individual that can be looked at—we will
get to a position where people are able to travel more freely
than they have been up to this point. However, I have to remind
the House that we are still living through a global pandemic, and
things are not quite so straightforward as has been suggested in
one or two of the interventions, although not that of the hon.
Gentleman.
Madam Deputy Speaker ( )
I will now suspend the House briefly so that arrangements can be
made for the next item of business.
14:33:00
Sitting suspended.
