Asked by
To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of
the electrical power requirements needed to enable reliable (1)
hydrogen, and (2) battery, availability, in order to meet their
zero carbon transport sector target.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for
Transport ()
(Con)
My Lords, the recent energy White Paper, published in December,
considered the potential future reliance of transport on
electricity and clean hydrogen. It also included nearly £500
million of funding that will be made available in the next four
years to build an internationally competitive electric vehicle
supply chain.
(Lab)
My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for that reply and the
energy White Paper is certainly a contribution. Does it include
all the power needed not only to produce batteries but to source
the raw materials? The demand for lithium, one of the main
contributors, is forecast to go up by 10 times, I think, in five
years. Manufacture of hydrogen takes double the amount of
electricity than it would it if you just drove a train or
anything else directly by electricity. Then there are all the
changes to the grid required. Can the Minister confirm that all
this is included in the White Paper?
(Con)
I can confirm that all these things are under consideration at
the current time. It is a complex picture and there are many
uncertainties as to what we will need our energy for. We are
absolutely committed to ensuring a sufficient supply of
low-carbon electricity. We need to ensure that the grid can cope
and that we make the best use of smart energy solutions that are
able to make use of plentiful renewable supply.
(Lab)
According to a widely accepted analysis, the electrification of
transport would require a 75% increase in generating capacity.
The decarbonisation of the economy will create numerous
additional demands. However, the energy White Paper proposes a
doubling of the capacity by 2050 in the context of a reduction of
a third in overall energy consumption. This would have to be
accompanied by the continued deindustrialisation of the economy,
a virtual cessation of manufacturing and the immiseration of much
of Britain’s working population. How do the Government react to
these inescapable conclusions?
(Con)
I am afraid I have not read the report to which the noble
Viscount refers. But it seems obvious that, over time, motors et
cetera will become more efficient. It could be therefore that the
amount of energy used will decline on a relative basis. The
Government are also focused on flexibility. Flexibility is key,
which is why we need smart technology that will centre on
storage, demand-side responses and interconnectors to make sure
we get the power to where it needs to be when it needs to be
there.
(LD) [V]
My Lords, the number of electric vehicle charging points on
motorways is already inadequate. To achieve the Government’s
targets for increasing EV sales, there must be a massive
expansion of the number of motorway charging points, but motorway
services are often in rural areas where the electricity grid is
already stretched. What work have the Government done so far to
ensure that motorway service stations will have the electrical
capacity that they will require, and what specifically do they
plan to do in the next two years?
(Con)
I would like to reassure the noble Baroness that, if she is on
the strategic road network, she should be no more than 20 miles
from an electric vehicle charger. I would also like to reassure
her that the Government have this in their sights. Of the £1.3
billion the Government are investing in EV charging points, £950
million is looking at future-proofing electricity capacity on the
strategic road network, because we recognise that this will be a
key way to recharge both electric vehicles and, in certain
circumstances, freight vehicles.
(Con) [V]
My Lords, I declare an interest in energy, as in the register. Is
not the real bottleneck in this whole programme the existing
lithium ion batteries and their sheer weight and extensive mined
metals content, including cobalt, copper, nickel, manganese and
of course refined lithium—not to mention their very heavy carbon
emissions in manufacture, large costs and long charge times? Can
we be assured that the Government will encourage the new
solid-state battery production, which requires far less
electricity, as well as using fewer metals and being safer,
cheaper, lighter, cleaner and quicker charging? Can we ensure
that we secure reliable supply lines from Asia, where these new
batteries are now mostly produced?
(Con)
The Government are of course focusing on our supply lines from
Asia, but also on what we can do domestically. Recent experiences
have shown us that being overreliant on any particular country is
possibly not the wisest idea. The Government are investing £318
million in the Faraday battery challenge. Part of that is the
amount of money we are investing in the Faraday Institution,
which within two years has become a world leader in
electrochemical energy storage research. There are 400
researchers there, looking at batteries with longer range; they
are lighter, faster charging, durable, safer and sustainable.
Allied to that, we will look at the supply chain for the
constituent elements that need to go into those batteries.
(CB)
My Lords, I declare my interests as in the register. In my mind,
the Question from the noble Lord, , is a good illustration of why a whole-systems
approach is needed to tackle net zero. Can the Minister say what
steps the Government are taking to address the problem of silos
inherent in individual departmental responsibilities—for example,
in BEIS and DfT? Does she agree with me that a cross-departmental
delivery body sitting below the Cabinet committees is required to
properly implement a systems approach to net zero?
(Con)
It is probably above my pay grade to try to reorganise government
from the Dispatch Box, but the noble Lord is absolutely right
that numerous government departments have a very strong interest
in what we are doing. For example, the Department for Transport
will publish its transport decarbonisation plan in the coming
weeks. As part of that, we will set out what we will do when it
comes to hydrogen technology. Subsequent to that, BEIS will
publish the UK hydrogen strategy, which will of course talk about
how we can focus on the low-carbon production of hydrogen. We are
capable of working together across departments and are doing so
well so far, but the noble Lord may be right; something may be
set up in future.
(Lab) [V]
My Lords, despite recent progress on transport electrification,
heavy goods vehicles remain difficult to electrify due to their
weight. The Climate Change Committee has recommended a 2040 ban
on diesel heavy vehicles. Will the Government act on this
recommendation?
(Con)
I agree with the noble Lord; heavy goods vehicles will be one of
the harder-to-reach elements for us to decarbonise. It could be
that hydrogen plays a much bigger role for HGVs. We are about to
consult on the date for starting to phase out the sale of diesel
HGVs, and recently launched a £20 million trial of zero-emission
road freight vehicles that will look at hydrogen and battery
electric. It will also look at catenary systems to see whether
they might work. All in all, it will advance research and
development on all low-carbon fuel sources for HGVs.
(LD) [V]
My Lords, hydrogen-powered vehicles are better for the
environment than those powered by electric, but they cost more to
run. How will the Government encourage the use of hydrogen when
price is a factor?
(Con)
Of course, hydrogen vehicles are better for the environment only
if the hydrogen is green hydrogen and made from renewable energy
in the first place. We do understand that economic incentives may
be required to encourage people to look at hydrogen but, at the
end of the day, it is not an “either battery electric or
hydrogen” situation; we will probably need both in great
quantities, and indeed any other low-carbon energy systems that
might become available. The Government will think about the
financial support they might offer to encourage the take-up of
those as they become available.
(PC) [V]
My Lords, the Government’s investment in the Holyhead hydrogen
hub is welcome, as is the hydrogen transport hub on Teesside, but
can the Minister confirm that further plans are in development to
create additional hydrogen hubs across Wales and the UK? These
will help unlock the potential of the hydrogen economy. As so
many of our current electricity generation plants will be closed
by 2050, will enough new capacity be brought forward to
facilitate this?
(Con)
Unfortunately, I cannot fully answer the noble Lord’s question.
Much of our hydrogen strategy will be in the transport
decarbonisation plan, followed by the UK hydrogen strategy, so I
cannot say now where new hydrogen hubs will be set up. But the
Government are very focused on ensuring that we have access to
good hydrogen, because it is a suitable, flexible energy source
that can be used across transport, heat and power.
