(Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)
(Urgent Question): To ask the Secretary of State for Digital,
Culture, Media and Sport if he will make a statement on visa
arrangements for UK musicians in the EU.
The Minister for Digital and Culture ()
This Government recognise the importance of the UK’s
world-leading cultural and creative industries. We recently
demonstrated that commitment by providing an unprecedented £1.57
billion package of support to help them through the covid-19
pandemic. It is therefore entirely consistent that, during the
negotiations with the EU, we pushed for ambitious arrangements
allowing performers and artists to work across Europe.
Our proposals, which were informed by our extensive consultation
and engagement with the UK’s cultural and creative industries,
would have allowed UK musicians and other cultural touring
professionals to travel and perform in the UK and the EU more
easily, without the need for work permits. Regrettably, those
mutually beneficial proposals were rejected by the EU. As a
result, UK cultural professionals seeking to tour in the EU will
be required to check domestic immigration and visitor rules for
each member state in which they intend to tour. Although some
member states allow touring without a permit, others will require
a pre-approved visa and/or a work permit.
It is absolutely vital that we now support our touring sectors to
understand the new rules associated with working and travelling
in the EU. We are delivering an extensive programme of engagement
with the sector to help them understand any new requirements.
That includes working with Arts Council England and various other
sector bodies, to help distil and clarify the new rules.
As my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Digital,
Culture, Media and Sport has already made very clear, we will
also look at whether we can work with our partners in EU member
states to find ways to make life easier for those working in the
creative industries in our respective countries. In the meantime,
we will continue close dialogue with the creative and cultural
sectors, to understand the ongoing impacts and ensure that that
they have the right support at the right time to continue to
thrive.
[V]
That is an immensely disappointing response from the Minister.
Touring Europe means everything to our artists and musicians: the
thrill of that first tour, crammed into the Transit van with all
your gear; four to a room in a cheap hotel in Paris, Rotterdam or
Hamburg; using what is left of the fee for a post-gig beer; the
dream of coming back on a lavish tour bus, staying at five-star
hotels—gone, all gone. Musicians and artists are mere collateral
in this Government’s obsession with ending freedom of movement.
Does the Minister acknowledge that visas and carnets will render
such tours beyond the financial reach of future generations of
new musicians? Does she appreciate that is not just our new
musicians but the whole creative sector that will have increased
costs and red tape? What will she say to the crews, the
technicians, the set designers, the transport? We were promised
by her predecessor that arrangements would not change. What has
happened to that commitment? The EU said it was prepared to offer
a 90-day deal. Why was that turned down? The Government said they
were holding out for a better deal, but we have ended up with
nothing. How could that happen? Given that the Minister’s
approach is totally contradicted by the EU, will she provide
complete transparency in all these negotiations?
Our constituents really care about this; 263,000 have now signed
the petition organised by our artists, calling for this to get
sorted. We do not want any more of the EU-blaming—we have had
quite enough of that in the past few years; we just want the
Government to fix this. The Secretary of State has said that the
door is still open, so will she walk through and fix it out? Will
she restart talks with the EU immediately, to get our artists the
arrangements that they need? Will she let the music tour freely
once again?
The hon. Gentleman is right to point out that this is incredibly
disappointing news for the music sector—it is not the deal that
we wanted; but I am afraid that in many other senses he has
fallen for some very selective briefing. The EU did not offer a
deal that would have worked for musicians. It is quite simple.
The EU made a very broad offer, which would not have been
compatible with the Government’s manifesto commitment to take
back control of our borders. I remind the hon. Gentleman that the
British people, the British public, voted for that at successive
elections.
To the extent that the EU proposals might have covered music,
they would not have worked for touring artists at all. The EU
proposals covered ad hoc performances. They would not have
covered support staff or technicians at all—which, as the hon.
Gentleman will remember from his touring days, are essential. I
would love him to explain to me how tours will happen without
support staff or technicians, because although I am not a music
professional, I cannot see how that could be the case.
The UK’s proposals were based on what those in the music industry
said they wanted. We spoke to them long and hard about that. I am
fascinated to think that the hon. Gentleman knows better than
bodies like the Musicians’ Union. We fought very hard—
[Interruption.] We fought very hard for what it wanted, but the
EU would not play ball.
Let us focus on the future. If the EU is willing to consider the
UK’s very sensible proposals, the door is open, and yes, I am
very happy to walk through it. I will be the first to walk
through that door. A mutually beneficial deal is not what the SNP
Members want, though, is it? They voted for a no-deal Brexit, so
under their plans, that would have been even harder. As those in
the music industry have said, what they need now is clarity, not
recriminations; and that is what the British Government are
working to provide.
(Solihull) (Con) [V]
This issue is not just about musicians being able to travel and
perform with ease. They also need somewhere to strut their stuff.
Will the Minister commit to an overarching strategy to get live
music thriving again, involving a restart of urgent negotiations
for a pan-EU musicians visa, bearing in mind previous EU
intransigence and by listening to the music industry? Will the
Government also commit to backing covid insurance for our
festivals and live music sector to allow them to plan for the
summer and beyond?
My hon. Friend is absolutely right, and there is quite a lot we
can do. The sector needs clarity and certainty, and because the
situation with every member state is different, that will be
tricky to provide. We therefore need to make it as simple, easy
and clear as we can for them to tour and go about their business,
and that is what we are setting about to do.
My hon. Friend makes an excellent point about insurance, which we
understand is a barrier to many live music events taking place
later in the year. We are in discussions with our colleagues in
the Treasury about that at the moment.
(Wirral South) (Lab) [V]
I draw the House’s attention to my entry in the Register of
Members’ Financial Interests. As we have heard, the Government
still blame the EU, so, to get this issue straight, will the
Minister make clear what exactly the EU proposed, when it was
proposed and whether the UK offer was more than the standard visa
policy?
The Minister said that the EU offer was a broad offer not
consistent with taking back control of our borders. Will she go
further and explain specifically when that was turned down?
Finally, so that we can all be clear, will she place in the
Library of the House of Commons all correspondence between the UK
and the EU and all correspondence between UK Government
Departments on this issue?
What matters is what happens now. A third of the creative
industry is self-employed, and the situation is a massive kick in
the teeth for a group of workers who are already having the worst
year in living memory. What representations has the UK made to
resolve the situation? What meetings are scheduled? Will the UK
still rely on mode 4 exemptions, even though doing so is without
precedent? Does the Minister agree that the resolution to the
situation requires a supplementary agreement?
The Minister must go further and spell out exactly what the
proposal is from the UK to resolve the situation. When musicians
and creative people tour, they do not just power up an economy
that is massively important to us; they represent us all on the
global stage, so we must get this resolved now.
I am happy to talk the hon. Lady through the situation. The EU
tabled texts regarding short-stay visa-free travel during the
negotiations, and embedded in the proposal was a declaration that
would have covered a very small number of paid activities. With
regard to artists, it covered ad hoc performances. Of course, the
declaration was non-binding and did not address things such as
technical or support staff. Crucially, it did not cover work
permits, which EU member states can put in place unilaterally.
Furthermore, the proposals would have enshrined permanent
visa-free short stays for all current and future EU citizens in
the agreement, and that is not compatible with our manifesto
commitment to take back control of our borders.
Our proposals were based on the views of the music industry and
would have been mutually beneficial across the EU and the UK.
They would have allowed musicians and support staff to travel and
perform in the UK and the EU more easily without needing work
permits. The EU did not propose and would not accept a tailored
deal for musicians, artists and their support staff to tour
across the EU and the UK.
As I have said, the UK’s door remains open should the EU change
its mind. We recognise that the outcome means that some
additional requirements will need to be met for the sector, and
we are working with the sector as fast as we can to put in place
the support and information that it needs. Labour Members voted
for this deal in the knowledge of what it involved, including the
end of free movement. What they are asking us to go back and
renegotiate now is exactly what we negotiated at that time. They
cannot have it both ways; they need consistency. What the sector
needs more than anything at the moment is certainty, and that is
what we are working to provide.
(Ashford) (Con)
[V]
The international success of UK musicians has, for decades, been
not just a big economic benefit for the country but a hugely
successful way of promoting our culture around the world, so it
seems extraordinary that any British Government would turn down a
deal that allowed our musicians to tour if that deal was
practical. Can the Minister assure me that that is not what
happened? What is she doing to resume negotiations, so that we
can get a realistic deal, which is essential for the future of
our music industry?
My right hon. Friend is absolutely right; the Government
recognise the vital importance of the UK’s thriving cultural and
creative industries. That is why we pushed for ambitious
arrangements for performers and artists to be able to work right
across Europe after the end of freedom of movement. The EU did
not accept our proposals, so now we need to ensure that we are
working to facilitate those arrangements as best we can. That
means giving musicians and others access to information and
guidance about the criteria for each EU member state and then
working with those individual member states to ensure that the
process is as seamless, fast, effective and simple as it can be.
(Ochil and South Perthshire) (SNP) [V]
Covid has been gruelling for the industry. The last thing it
needs is the new Brexit visa barriers that we now know the UK
Government—not the EU, but the UK Government—insisted upon. There
is no money to be made from streaming. Artists make their income
by touring. New barriers, visas and endless red tape mean that EU
performers will not come to our festivals and our performers will
face prohibitive new costs. It is wantonly cruel.
The Minister mentioned the Musicians’ Union, so let me quote its
head. He said:
“the government fails to understand the issues facing touring
musicians”.
He is an expert, and I know that the UK Government do not like
experts, but this is more Brexit zealotry causing misery. Will
the Secretary of State listen, intervene and publish that
correspondence, as my hon. Friend the Member for Perth and North
Perthshire () requested? Put it in the Library—let us read it.
There is a close historical relationship between the UK and the
EU. That must endure, and it will endure. Artists and musicians
from the EU are welcome. They are encouraged to visit and perform
in the UK and vice versa, and the Government will do everything
they can to make that as seamless as possible.
(North Devon) (Con) [V]
I thank my hon. Friend for the work she is doing to support the
arts and culture sector through the pandemic. Can she confirm how
many music venues and other music organisations have benefited
from the Government’s £1.57 billion culture recovery fund?
I thank my hon. Friend for the work that she does to champion the
cultural institutions across her constituency. She is a great
voice for the people of North Dorset—sorry, I mean North Devon,
but I am sure she is very nice about the people of North Dorset
as well. The £1.57 billion culture recovery fund—of which we have
already delivered more than £1 billion in support to various
arts, heritage and performance organisations—has, to date, made
680 awards to music totalling more than £111 million.
(Cardiff West) (Lab) [V]
I did ask the Prime Minister about this last week, and he
promised a meeting with me and the Conservative Chair of the
Select Committee, and I was told I would hear from No. 10. I do
not know if the Minister can shed any light on that.
I do want the Minister to realise that a lot of touring musicians
are not there with a lot of tech support; they are actually
individuals who are starting out or perhaps established but not
with that level of support. In effect, this represents the
research and development of an important industry, but they may
just be travelling with a single instrument on a plane with some
fans in Europe. I think the most important thing the Minister
could do today—others have asked this—is to publish in full the
details of the discussions between the EU and the UK on this, so
that we can all see what the ambitious proposals were and why she
finds them so objectionable.
I know the hon. Gentleman is a great champion for the music
industry, and not a bad musical performer himself. He is
absolutely right, and we do understand that, for those starting
at the music industry, the ability to tour is vital to their
career and their future prosperity. That is why the EU
proposals—they did not support touring activity; they just
supported ad hoc artist activity—would not have done it for so
many of them, which is why we pushed for something so much
better. We are very disappointed that the EU did not it see our
way, but we will try to do everything we can to support them. I
will speak to my colleagues in the Department for Business,
Energy and Industrial Strategy and the Home Office about
publishing the information he has requested.
Mr (South West Hertfordshire) (Con) [V]
As the Minister will be aware, South West Hertfordshire is home
to many successful and established musicians. Can my hon. Friend
confirm that the UK’s proposals in the negotiations were based on
the views of the UK music industry and would have allowed
musicians to travel and perform in the UK and Europe more easily,
without the need for work permits?
Yes, my hon. Friend is absolutely right to raise this. As I have
said already, we worked very collaboratively with a whole range
of stakeholders, including UK Music and the Musicians’ Union, to
put forward proposals that were really based on the views of the
musicians and the music industry about what they needed. It would
have been mutually beneficial to the UK and the EU, and it would
have allowed musicians—and, crucially, their support staff or
their technicians—to travel and perform more easily, without the
need for work permits.
(Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD) [V]
I must be honest and say that I do welcome the fact that the door
is still “open” to UK performers performing permit-free in the
EU. Surely the danger is that concert promoters in the EU will
simply take the easy option and go for a Dane or for a German
performer, rather than the sheer hassle of British performers.
There are also problems with the movement of musical instruments,
which we know about. I have written to the DCMS just now, asking
if we could please have a meeting between Ministers, me and
musicians who are knowledgeable about this issue. At the end of
the day, we have to try to sort it out, so I would be extremely
grateful if the Minister agreed to such a meeting.
Absolutely. I am very happy to meet anybody on this, because it
is really important that we continue regular engagement with the
sector. We need to make sure that we have a very deep
understanding of its needs and its questions in the light of
these changes, which we know will pose a number of queries. Most
recently, we held an EU exit explainer seminar with over 200
sector representative bodies in attendance, and the Secretary of
State has a roundtable on Wednesday—tomorrow—with representatives
from across the cultural and creative industries. We will keep
doing those sorts of sessions all the time that people need and
require them.
(Hyndburn) (Con)
I have had quite a number of constituents contact me from
Hyndburn and Haslingden highlighting their concerns on this, so
can the Minister please reassure my constituents by outlining
what the Department is doing to address it?
My hon. Friend is a great champion for her local area and will be
taking the concerns of her constituents incredibly seriously, as
indeed do we. We understand that we need to work with all the
music sector trade bodies to make sure that we give people access
to the information they need as to the situations in all the
individual nation states; they are all different, which is one of
the most confusing things about this. We also need to make sure
that we work with those individual nations as closely as we can,
to ensure that any barriers that are in place are made as simple
and easy to navigate as possible.
(Putney) (Lab) [V]
In Putney, creative artists and support staff have already been
damaged by the uncertainty around Brexit, on top of the covid
effects that mean they are not able to tour. This failure of
negotiations on a creative industry 90-day visa is letting down
industry and the arts. Is the Minister really just going to sit
back with her door open, or will she re-enter negotiations and be
prepared for some give and take with individual countries to get
that tailored deal that the creative industries really need?
I do not know what I have said during the course of today that
could ever give the hon. Lady the viewpoint that I am just
prepared to sit back and do nothing about this, or that I am
happy with the way things have panned out; I voted for the trade
agreement, but I presume so did she. We are not sitting there
doing nothing. We are talking and will continue to talk to EU
member states. They could of course unilaterally make things
easier for travelling artists and musicians, but any changes they
make would be likely to cover all visitors, not just those from
the UK. The key thing we can do is to continue to talk to the
sector and make sure that we put in place any support,
information and guidance that it needs.
(Barrow and
Furness) (Con) [V]
I have been contacted by a number of constituents on this issue,
notably the Furness Tradition group. Could my hon. Friend confirm
that, despite some of the reporting in recent days, touring in
the EU is still possible for UK artists and musicians, and that
the Government are working towards a more formal arrangement with
the EU?
Quite simply, of course touring is still encouraged. Artists and
musicians from the EU are very welcome and encouraged to visit
and perform in the UK, and absolutely vice versa. I am sure that
individual member states have different restrictions when it
comes to visas and work permits; some are very limited, some are
a little bit more complicated. This is very much a quid pro
quo—it works for the EU as much as it does for our musicians here
in the UK—and I am sure that many countries want to come to an
arrangement that will allow their musicians to move, travel, work
and tour and to take their beautiful music around Europe.
(Batley and Spen) (Lab/Co-op)
I am sure the Minister will agree that this is a double whammy
for anyone who cares about levelling up and the creative
industries in West Yorkshire and beyond. Recent figures show that
the creative industries in West Yorkshire and the Humber have
grown by 10.9%. It is really important for jobs and opportunities
that we keep this industry flourishing, so will the Minister tell
us what the Government have put in place to compensate for the
inevitable loss of these opportunities, and will she make
available what impact assessment has been done on the changes
that this will make to the ability of businesses to continue to
flourish after covid?
Of course we know that this has been such a horrible year,
particularly for the sectors that I represent—the cultural and
creative industries in west Yorkshire and around the whole UK.
Covid has been a bitter blow. Of course we did not get the
agreement with the EU that we wanted on touring musicians, but we
want to do everything we can to support them, including providing
clear, easy-to-access information and speaking to our colleagues
in EU member states. We will also talk to our colleagues in the
Treasury to see what financial support can be put in place at a
future fiscal event.
(Edinburgh East) (SNP) [V]
The Edinburgh Fringe is the largest arts festival in the world. I
hope the Minister will be aware that this event and others like
it have a vital role to play in developing new work and providing
a springboard for artists who then subsequently tour that work.
Does she therefore not understand that by refusing to maintain a
visa exemption for artists, she is fatally undermining festivals
in Scotland and the United Kingdom?
I am a massive fan of the Edinburgh Fringe and, in fact, of all
the Edinburgh festivals. Last summer was the first in any since I
can remember that I was not able to go to Edinburgh to see them
at first hand and it was something that I missed greatly. Very
recently, just before Christmas, I met representatives from
across the Edinburgh festivals to talk about all the issues that
they are facing, particularly with regard to coronavirus, but
others as well. I should correct the hon. Gentleman. It was not
for want of trying that we do not have this free movement of our
musicians to be able to perform and to tour across the EU or,
indeed, vice versa. We fought very hard for it. Our own
arrangements with regard to visas and work permits mean that
musicians and performers from outside the UK are very welcome to
our shores.
(Preseli
Pembrokeshire) (Con) [V]
British bands and professional musicians represent a hugely
successful cultural export for the UK. I know that the Minister
recognises that and I know that she understands the importance of
international touring in that success, but may I ask her what
more she can do on a bilateral basis with her counterparts in EU
member states to find specific solutions to the problems that we
are discussing today and ensure that touring remains as easy as
possible for our world-leading musicians?
I thank my right hon. Friend for that question. Of course, as I
have said, the door is open and I would love to be able to change
this across the board straight away, but that will not be
possible in the immediate or foreseeable future. It is all about
having those bilateral conversations with colleagues in EU member
states. At this stage, it would not be about a waiver but about
facilitation and what we can do to make the situation as easy and
as straightforward as possible and, of course, those are the
conversations that we will be having.
(North Antrim)
(DUP) [V]
Van Morrison penned the protest song “We Are Born to be Free”,
but it appears that musicians like him and others are now
completely caught up in a red tape trap and are not free at all.
Can the Minister clarify the situation with regard to carnets for
musicians and instruments travelling from GB to Northern Ireland
and from Northern Ireland back to GB? Can she confirm that they
are definitely not required within the UK? However, once a person
gets to Northern Ireland, will they be required to travel south,
or will the common arrangements that we have with the Republic of
Ireland still be in place? Once south, can a person then onward
travel without a carnet to the rest of Europe? Can we have
clarity on those issues?
Van Morrison also penned “Brown Eyed Girl”, which is my own
personal anthem. I thank the hon. Gentleman for that question.
Artists and organisations based in Northern Ireland will not be
required to obtain ATA carnets or musical instrument certificates
when touring in the EU because the Northern Ireland protocol
means that Northern Ireland is part of the same regulatory
environment for goods as the European Union. Northern Ireland
citizens who do not hold Irish citizenship as well will be
subject to the same changes as other British citizens on mobility
and business travel when going to EU member states, but, of
course, not to the Republic of Ireland.
(Loughborough) (Con) [V]
A number of my constituents in the entertainments, arts and
creative industries have contacted me setting out the impacts
that the new immigration restrictions will have on their
livelihoods. It is clear that the UK Government strived to gain a
mutually beneficial agreement with the EU. Will the Minister
therefore set out what steps the Government are taking to
continue to urge the EU to return to the negotiating table and
reopen discussions to reach a more preferable agreement for all
parties? May I take this opportunity on behalf of my constituents
to ask the EU to reconsider its position?
I thank my hon. Friend for that question. The negotiating team
did negotiate an opportunity to come back and review this in the
years ahead, so the light at the end of the tunnel is not
entirely switched off. But there is quite a lot we can do between
European nation states to try to make things a lot easier and
straightforward. She is right to highlight that this impacts EU
artists as much as it does those from the UK. We want to make
their lives as easy and as straightforward as possible.
(Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab) [V]
As well as issues with visas or work permits, UK musicians
working in EU countries risk being double-charged their social
security contributions if they work in a country that has opted
out of the social security co-ordination under the detached
worker rules. Can the Minister set out what the Government are
doing to avoid that and ensure that UK musicians do not face that
financial penalty while they are working in the EU?
I am really pleased that the hon. Lady has given me the
opportunity to answer that question. The protocol on social
security co-ordination secured in the agreement ensures that UK
nationals and EU citizens have a range of social security cover
when working and living in the EU and the UK. It also supports
business and trade by ensuring that cross-border workers and
their employers are only liable to pay social security
contributions in one state at a time. That is, obviously, very
beneficial in particular to smaller cultural organisations that
may not have the required cash flow to finance any duplicate
payments. Member states have until 31 January to sign up to the
detached worker provision. The UK continues to engage with our
European counterparts via our global and international
stakeholder network to encourage countries to sign up to that
provision ahead of the deadline.
(Harrow East)
(Con) [V]
There is clearly no substitute for live music and during the
covid pandemic opportunities have been severely depressed. In
addition to having discussions on how we might ensure musicians
can travel within the European Union and within the UK, can my
hon. Friend update the House on what discussions she has had with
TV companies to allow emerging musicians in particular the
opportunity to have their music recorded and broadcast in parts
of the European Union?
As ever, an ingenious question from my hon. Friend. I know that
so many of our brilliant cultural organisations have worked
really hard to improve their digital offer, particularly over the
various lockdowns. Earlier in the year, I visited the Bournemouth
Symphony Orchestra and saw the amazing work it is doing to bring
its beautiful music to audiences around the world because of the
investment it has made in that capacity. He has hit on a really
strong concept. I will discuss it with my dear colleague, the
Minister for Media and Data, my right hon. Friend the Member for
Maldon (Mr Whittingdale).
(Pontypridd) (Lab) [V]
The Minister may not be aware of this, but the world-renowned
Cory Band from Rhondda Cynon Taff are the current European brass
band champions. To travel through Europe to defend their
hard-fought-for title, and to visit the concerts and workshops,
each member of the band will now require a visa and a work
permit, despite them being an amateur organisation. This will
undoubtedly add an additional financial and administrative burden
that could be avoided. What discussions has the Minister had to
ensure that brass bands from across the UK can continue to fly
the flag for us in Europe without this bureaucracy?
I was not aware of the hon. Lady’s band and I wish them the very
best of luck in their endeavours to defend their fantastic title.
If the tour they are going on is not paid by the individual
venues they are visiting, there may not be an issue here. The
band would have to discuss that with individual member states to
get clarity on that, but I am very happy to speak to her further
about it.
(North East
Bedfordshire) (Con) [V]
It is clear that this issue gets to the core of our inextricable
cultural links with our European partners. It is good to see the
Minister stressing the urgency of securing bilateral agreements
and ensuring that current arrangements are simplified for people.
May I make a special request that she bears in mind individual
musicians, many of whom carry multiple instruments, in her
efforts to simplify the current arrangements?
As ever, my hon. Friend makes an excellent point. There are so
many facets to this issue that we need to keep in mind as we move
forward. That is certainly something that I am very happy to talk
to him further about.
(Twickenham) (LD) [V]
I have been contacted by a number of constituents—not just
musicians, but actors, dancers, choreographers and
puppeteers—about the Government’s failure to secure visa-free
work permits for touring artists in the EU. This comes as a
further hammer blow to their livelihoods, with the continued
shutdown of live entertainment as well as the huge gaps in the
Government’s support for many working in these industries. What
assurances can the Minister give to my constituents, particularly
students such as Fresca David, who is just starting out on her
career, that they are not being treated as an afterthought by
this Government?
My message to the hon. Lady’s constituent would be that the
Government entirely recognise the vital importance of the UK’s
thriving creative artists. We want to support them in every way
we can. I am just so pleased that there was not a Liberal
Democrat Government, who would have voted for no deal.
(West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (Con) [V]
This is a really serious issue and Scottish musicians will
undoubtedly be affected. Does my hon. Friend agree that, instead
of simply masquerading as a serious party of Government, the
Scottish National party should start acting like one, cease these
politically charged, ill-informed, deliberately misleading
games—an example of which we have seen today—that do nothing to
help the situation, work with us and support us in attempting to
find a mutually agreeable solution, support Scottish musicians
who have been let down by the EU’s decision not to accept our
compromise proposals, and work to get an agreement over visa
arrangements?
My hon. Friend hits the nail on the head. What we need to do now
is to move forward. We need to come forward with sensible
proactive solutions for the UK music sector. The industry itself
has said that what we need now is clarity, not recriminations.
That is what we are working to provide and we very much
appreciate support from across the House for us to do that.
(Glasgow East) (SNP) [V]
My Belvidere constituent, Louise McLean, is just one of the many
people connected to the music industry who can see that live
performers are just the latest casualty in a Brexit that Scotland
did not vote for. Last year, as Culture Minister, the hon. Member
for Selby and Ainsty (), said:
“It is essential that free movement is protected for artists post
2020.”—[Official Report, 21 January 2020; Vol. 670, c. 56WH.]
Does the hon. Lady agree with her ministerial colleague? Why was
that view ignored in Government, if it is also the view of the
music industry?
Yes, absolutely, I agree with the comments of my predecessor.
That is why we put to the EU fantastic proposals, which were
based on the views of the music industry, would have been
mutually beneficial and allowed musicians and support staff to
tour. We are very disappointed that the EU did not see it the
same way.
(Romsey and Southampton North) (Con) [V]
I was pleased to hear my hon. Friend mention technicians—the
sound and lighting engineers who make touring possible. When she
is looking for a solution, which I know she is doing, will she
also include companies such as Beat the Street in Romsey, which
provides the tour buses that make it possible for artists to
travel Europe? It will spell a death knell for the entire
industry if they are not able to access the continent.
My right hon. Friend is such a great champion for businesses in
her local area, particularly those that have been so badly
affected, not just by covid, but by the very disappointing EU
refusal to accept our very reasonable propositions. She will know
that the sector has benefited from a range of different support
measures over the last year that were put in place because of
covid, but we do need to support it moving forward. The EU’s
proposal would not have worked because it would not have
supported the valuable support workers in my right hon. Friend’s
constituency to do their work. Quite simply, without them,
touring would not be possible.
(Exeter) (Lab) [V]
The Minister and Conservative MPs keep claiming that they made
this fantastic offer, but we cannot test that because they have
not published it. The EU has. It is there in black and white on
page 171 of the draft agreement from March last year, allowing
90-day visa-free touring by British musicians and other cultural
activities. Will the Minister publish the Government’s proposal,
so we can see where the truth lies?
I have to correct the right hon. Gentleman. The document does not
say 90 days visa-free touring by UK musicians; it is a lot more
opaque than that, which is why we could not simply sign up to it.
It just would not have delivered what we needed for our
musicians, and it flew in the face of what the British public
voted for in the case of controlling our borders. As I have
already said, I will speak to colleagues across BEIS and the Home
Office to see what further details on the negotiations we can
publish.
(North West Durham) (Con)
As you know, Mr Speaker, the north of England has helped to form
and then exported some of the biggest musicians and bands across
the world in recent decades. Touring is not a “nice to have”; it
is an absolute financial necessity for musicians from both the UK
and the EU. Can the Minister confirm that it was the UK
Government who pushed for a more ambitious agreement with the EU
on temporary movement of business travellers, and that it was the
EU that unreasonably rejected this proposal?
I thank my hon. Friend for putting it so simply and succinctly;
that is exactly what happened. The proposals that we put forward
would have allowed musicians to travel and perform in the UK and
the EU more easily, and they were rejected by the EU.
(Garston
and Halewood) (Lab) [V]
I have been listening to the Minister’s replies, and it is always
somebody else’s fault with this Government, isn’t it? Our
world-class events and production companies, such as Adlib in my
constituency, tour the EU with UK and US-based musicians, but
very few EU-based companies tour the UK. Does not the Minister
realise that her giving up on agreeing comprehensive arrangements
to enable this to continue could destroy a sector that has huge
export success and destroy the jobs and livelihoods of the
technicians, who are already struggling because of the pandemic
restrictions to their trade?
Of course I recognise that this is not the solution that we would
have wanted, and it is not the solution that we fought really
hard for. I point out to the hon. Lady that the Labour party
voted for this deal in the full knowledge of what it involved,
including the end to freedom of movement.
(Watford) (Con)
From The Horns to the Colosseum to the Palace Theatre, music
literally beats at the heart of my constituency of Watford. That
means that we have many amazing musicians. They are asking me
whether my hon. Friend can confirm that it was not the UK that
ended these visas, and what measures are going forward to support
this amazing sector?
My hon. Friend is such a vibrant champion, and not just for the
music industry in his constituency; we have also spoken about the
film industry. I expect him at any moment to be descending from
the ceiling on a wire in the next “Mission Impossible” movie. He
does it all with great panache, and that is exactly what we want
to do. The cultural recovery fund has been about supporting music
venues so that musicians can get back to doing what they love.
Arts Council England is there to support them. We will look at
every opportunity we have to put in place more of that vital
encouragement and support.
(Arfon) (PC) [V]
Professor Paul Carr of the University of South Wales reports that
in 2019 music tourism alone generated a spend of £124 million in
Wales, supporting 1,754 jobs. The Government’s failure to secure
visa-free travel is a huge blow, especially to young people at a
tipping point in their creative careers. In particular, it will
diminish the strong international quality of our national
culture. What assessment has the Minister made of the long-term
impact of this wholly avoidable mess, specifically on the
cultural industry in Wales?
We know that there will be obstacles in the immediate period for
those who want to travel and tour abroad, but I am sure that that
will change once we enable people to access the information they
need and they can see what the situation is with all the
different member states, because they all vary wildly. In Wales
in particular, musicians are dedicated, vibrant, resourceful and
practical, and I know that they will overcome any bumps in the
road to be able to do what they do so brilliantly and to continue
to share it with our European neighbours.
(Reigate)
(Con) [V]
I thank you, Mr Speaker, and the hon. Member for Perth and North
Perthshire () for providing the opportunity to help the Minister
correct the misleading social media chatter among professional
musicians and other performance artists, and from Opposition
Members, about exactly where the responsibility lies for this
situation. Will she confirm my impression that the European Union
negotiators appear to have rather cynically used and abused the
interests of its musicians and its music fans to undermine the
United Kingdom Government’s commitment to its own citizens around
regaining control of our borders? However ungrateful and
ungracious the Musicians’ Union has been in regard to my hon.
Friend’s efforts—
Mr Speaker
Order. I call the Minister, please. That was far too long a
question.
My hon. Friend is right that we did fight very hard for this. We
understand this not just for performers from the UK, but—he is
absolutely right—for performers from the EU as well, because the
UK music scene is, I would say, the best in the world, and
putting any obstacles or tests in the way of EU performers coming
here is a very difficult position for them as well. We are a lot
more forthcoming: we do not put in place work permits, and we
have a lot more sensitive approaches to visas for performers
coming across from the EU. It would have been lovely for that to
have been the situation right across all EU member states as
well.
(Linlithgow and East Falkirk) (SNP) [V]
Similar to many families in my constituency, artists have been
pointing out that many bands comprise a mixture of EU and UK
nationals. Does the Minister not see the impossible situation
that they will now face, with different members being faced with
different levels of bureaucracy and red tape wherever they tour?
Absolutely; I understand the hon. Gentleman’s suggestion that
this causes a problem for bands, in particular, or orchestras who
have members from all different EU member states. The guidance is
that we all have to seek instructions from each member state on
how we proceed, but had the EU accepted our suggestions in the
first place, we would not be in this position.
(North Cornwall) (Con) [V]
I am sure that my hon. Friend would agree that our world-leading
artists and musicians are not just important to the UK
economically, but vital to our country’s culture and soft power.
The arts play an important role in my constituency, where we have
the Leopallooza festival and the Rock Oyster festival, attracting
hundreds of talented artists and performers. Given that, I was
disappointed to hear of the EU’s rejection of the UK’s visa-free
travel offer. Will she commit to doing what she can to secure
access to EU countries for UK artists and musicians and keep
negotiating to try to encourage the EU to show some flexibility,
for the sake of my constituents?
Yes, of course, we will keep that negotiation open and try to
make things as simple and as painless as possible. Our door
remains open if the EU wants to come back and look at this again.
Where visas apply, our agreement with the EU does contain
measures that will help to ensure that processes are as prompt
and smooth as possible, and we will work to exploit those as much
as we can.
(Eltham) (Lab) [V]
This morning, the UK music industry told the Digital, Culture,
Media and Sport Committee that despite being 1% of the world’s
population, the UK produces 10% of its music. This industry has
been one of the fastest growing over the last 10 years. It
employs 2 million people, with the potential to create 1 million
jobs in the next 10 years, so I am incredulous that the
Government have got us into this situation. Will the Minister say
when she will start the negotiations on a supplementary agreement
so that we can sort this mess out?
The hon. Gentleman is right to say how incredibly successful our
music industry is around the world, and that is why we fought so
hard to get much better arrangements in the agreement. What we
need to do now is ensure that our sectors are prepared to face
any challenges in the future, which is why we are continuing
those dialogues with them to understand the ongoing impacts and
challenges that may be faced. We need to ensure that they have
the right support at the right time and do everything we can to
work with other member states to ensure that the transition is as
smooth as possible.
(Folkestone and Hythe) (Con) [V]
In addition to trying to improve visa-free travel for musicians,
could my hon. Friend say whether the Government hope to progress
on easing the movement of musical equipment from country to
country within Europe, so that it is not treated like any other
physical goods, and on easing the cabotage restrictions for
festivals and bands? Finally, can she confirm whether EU-based
music showcases fall under the short business trip exemption for
conferences, trade fairs and exhibitions? These showcases are
often so important in making the careers of developing talent.
With regard to the haulage—the cabotage—that has not been imposed
just on us because we have left the EU. They are rules that apply
to both UK and EU haulage firms. I want to speak more about this
with colleagues in the Department for Transport and with European
colleagues to see what more can be done to address it. It impacts
not just us but companies that are moving musical equipment
across Europe, no matter which European member state they come
from. As for my hon. Friend’s other question, if performers are
visiting in a business capacity, that is to negotiate a future
tour, for any other scoping arrangements or for various other
things, that would fall under the business visa waiver. It is
always really important to check the individual rules of that EU
nation—that member state—to ensure that they do not have anything
that would need to be abided by.
Madam Deputy Speaker ( )
.
(Winchester) (Con)
Is it not the case that the longer the situation persists, the
worse it gets—
Madam Deputy Speaker
Order. This is my fault, but I missed out . I beg the House’s pardon and that of the hon.
Gentleman. .
(City of Durham) (Lab) [V]
Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I think we can all agree that no
competent Government would accept such a significant loss of
revenue for an already struggling sector without a plan B to
mitigate the economic impact. Can the Minister tell me what plan
is in place to make up for the financial shortfall for the
creative industries resulting from the Government’s failure to
negotiate visa exemptions with the European Union?
I just want to make sure that the hon. Lady is not labouring
under any misapprehension that the EU made a bespoke offer on
musicians that we turned down. That simply is not the case. We
fought very hard to get a solution that would have worked to the
benefit of our musicians and those from the EU. As ever, we want
to ensure that our music industry is supported. We supported it
with the cultural recovery fund, and Arts Council England has a
range of grants and financial support on offer. On this
particular issue, we will speak to colleagues in the Treasury to
see whether any support can be put forward at a future fiscal
event.
Surely the longer this situation persists the worse it gets for
UK artists, and the longer their recovery from covid becomes.
Right now, musicians, agents and those who book for them have way
too much risk in fixing European gigs. It is no good Opposition
Members who voted for no deal joining the debate now. We have the
deal, but surely we need to return to it with the sensible UK
proposal that was on the table, which presumably, as the Minister
has said today, still stands.
My hon. Friend has just hit the nail on the head, and does so in
a much more articulate way than I could. That is absolutely
right: the deal is still on the table and our door is open for
the EU to come back and take up that deal if it wants to. In the
short term, we are speaking to member states bilaterally about
the visa regime and whether there is any facilitation, as opposed
to a waiver, that could be put in place. What the sector now
needs is certainty and for us to be able to put in place the
guidance and support for it to move forward.
(Angus) (SNP) [V]
The Minister acknowledged that this situation is deeply
unsatisfactory, and so too have the many MPs who have signed my
early-day motion highlighting this crisis for touring artists.
Today she committed her Department to preparing the creative
sector for this new regime. Can she assure the House that this
will be better than the way that the Department for Environment,
Food and Rural Affairs helped to prepare fishermen and farmers,
which was to throw them off the bureaucratic cliff? Is she not
worried that this wanton and wholly avoidable impediment to the
fraternal sharing of arts and culture exposes a rather narrow and
isolationist vision of the future by this UK Government?
The key is ensuring that we put in place the guidance and support
that the sector needs to be able to deal with the new changes. We
are talking collaboratively with the sector about that at the
moment, and we will be putting in place opportunities for people
to learn much more about how things stand and where they need to
go to access advice and support. Those are the practical things
that we can talk about right now to help our sector move forward
and continue to be the vibrant ambassador for the UK and the
hugely brilliant cultural sector that it has always been.
(Aberconwy) (Con) [V]
A single European tour may visit dozens of venues, employing
hundreds of people skilled in everything from logistics to
finance, lighting, pyrotechnics, costumes and more to make it a
success. What reassurances can my hon. Friend give people like
Aberconwy resident and experienced front-of-house engineer
Berenice Hardman that practical arrangements such as visas,
carnets and cabotage will be easier and simpler for them to deal
with in the future?
The assurance I would give my hon. Friend’s constituent is that
we will be having conversations with colleagues across all the
nation states of the EU to see what measures we can put in place
to facilitate the arrangements. Some of them have very
straightforward arrangements right now—some of them do not impose
extra work permits, and some are very flexible when it comes to
their visas, and others less so. We need to speak to them to
ensure that these arrangements can be as smooth, fast and easy to
understand as possible, and that is the key to us being able to
move forward.
