(Holborn and St Pancras)
(Lab)
Last Friday, the Health Secretary said:
“Right from the start we’ve tried to throw a protective ring
around our care homes.”
That caused quite a reaction. Yesterday, it was flatly
contradicted by the chief executive of Care England. He was
giving evidence to the Select Committee on Health and Social
Care, and he said that we should have been focusing on care homes
from the start and that despite what is being said, there were
cases of people who either did not have a covid status or were
symptomatic who were discharged into our care homes. The
Government advice from 2 to 15 April was:
“Negative tests are not required prior to transfers/admissions
into”
care homes. What is protective about that?
The Prime Minister
As the right hon. and learned Gentleman knows full well—of course
he is right to draw attention to what has happened in our care
homes, and we mourn the loss of every victim—no one was
discharged into a care home this year without the express
authorisation of a clinician, and they have the interests of
those patients at heart. As I said to him last week—he does not
seem to have remembered—actually, the number of patients
discharged from hospitals into care homes was 40% down in March
on January. The guidance was changed to reflect the change in the
epidemic, and that guidance was made available to care homes—and,
of course, since the care homes action plan began, we have seen a
sharp reduction in the number of deaths in care homes. Indeed,
since I last stood before the House, the number of deaths in care
homes has come down by 31%. I think he should pay tribute to all
those who have helped to fight that epidemic across the NHS and
across our local services.
I think the Prime Minister rather missed the point. The question
was whether people were tested going back into care homes. The
chief executive of Care England says that because they were not,
people who had no covid-19 status or who were symptomatic were
discharged into care homes. That is a very serious issue that
requires an answer.
Yesterday, the chief executive of Care England, in his evidence,
was also asked when routine testing would start in care homes.
This is the answer he gave yesterday: “I think the short answer
is that we’ve had the announcement, but what we haven’t had is
delivery, and we are not really clear when that will arrive.”
This is the chief executive of Care England in his evidence. Even
the Government’s Command Paper, published last week and
introduced by the Prime Minister to this House, says within
it—[Interruption.] The Health Secretary says, “He’s wrong.” I am
quoting the Government’s paper. It says that
“every care home for the over 65s will have been offered testing
for residents and staff”
by 6 June.
That is from the Prime Minister’s Command Paper. That is over two
weeks away. What is causing the continued delay in routine
testing in our care homes?
The Prime Minister
I am afraid the right hon. and learned Gentleman is simply in
ignorance of the facts. The reality is that already 125,000 care
home staff have been tested, 118,000—[Interruption.] Perhaps he
did know that. One hundred and eighteen thousand care home
workers have been tested, and we are absolutely confident that we
will be able to increase our testing, not just in care homes but
across the whole of the community. Thanks to the hard work of my
right hon. Friend the Health Secretary and his teams, we will get
up to 200,000 tests in this country by the end of this month. The
right hon. and learned Gentleman may know this—perhaps it is one
of those international comparisons he hesitates to make—but
actually this country is now testing more than virtually any
other country in Europe.
Again, the question was when would routine testing start, and the
chief executive of Care England, who knows what he is talking
about, gave evidence yesterday that it has not. [Interruption.]
If the Prime Minister is disputing the evidence to the Select
Committee, that is his own business. [Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Order. Secretary of State for Health, please. I do not mind you
advising the Prime Minister, but you do not need to advise the
Opposition during this. [Interruption.] Sorry, do you want to
leave the Chamber? We are at maximum numbers. If you want to give
way to somebody else, I am more than happy.
To assure the Prime Minister, I am not expressing my own view; I
am putting to him the evidence of experts to Committees
yesterday.
Testing was referred to by the Prime Minister. That on its own is
obviously not enough. What is needed is testing, tracing and
isolation. At yesterday’s press conference, the deputy chief
scientific adviser said that we could draw particular lessons
from Germany and South Korea, which have both had intensive
testing and tracing. The number of covid-19 deaths in Germany
stands at around 8,000. In South Korea, it is under 300. In
contrast, in the United Kingdom, despite 2 million tests having
been carried out, there has been no effective tracing in place
since 12 March, when tracing was abandoned. That is nearly 10
weeks in a critical period without effective tracing. That is a
huge hole in our defences, isn’t it, Prime Minister?
The Prime Minister
I must say that I find it peculiar, because I have given the
right hon. and learned Gentleman repeated briefings on this
matter. He is perfectly aware of the situation in the UK as
regards testing and tracing in early March. It has been explained
many times to him and to the House. I think his feigned ignorance
does not come very well. However, I can tell him that today I am
confident that we will have a test and trace operation that will
enable us, if all the other conditions are satisfied—it is
entirely provisional—to make progress. I can also tell him that
we have already recruited 24,000 trackers, and by 1 June we will
have 25,000. They will be capable of tracking the contacts of
10,000 new cases a day. To understand the importance of that
statistic, I remind the right hon. and learned Gentleman that
today the new cases stand at 2,400. We are making vast progress
in testing and tracing and I have great confidence that by 1
June, we will have a system that will help us greatly to defeat
this disease and move the country forward. I therefore hope that
he will abandon his slightly negative tone and support it.
Thirty-four thousand deaths is negative. Of course I am going to
ask about that, and quite right too. The Prime Minister says
“feigned ignorance”, but he knows that for 10 weeks there has
been no tracing, unlike in Germany and South Korea. Tracing is
critical—there is no getting away from that. The Prime Minister
knows it is vital—he made a great deal of it in his speech to the
nation Sunday week ago. He said,
“we cannot move forward unless we satisfy”
the tests that he has set, one of which is a “world-beating” test
and trace system. World-beating. Leaving aside the
rhetoric—“effective” will do—there now appears to be some doubt
about when the system will be ready. This is the last Prime
Minister’s questions for two weeks. Can the Prime Minister
indicate that an effective test, trace and isolate system will be
in place by 1 June—Monday week?
The Prime Minister
The right hon. and learned Gentleman seems to be in the unhappy
position of having rehearsed his third or fourth question but not
listened to my previous answer, brilliant forensic mind though he
has. He has heard that we have growing confidence that we will
have a test, track and trace operation that will be
world-beating, and yes, it will be in place by 1 June.
To repeat the figures, since the right hon. and learned Gentleman
has invited me to do so, there will be 25,000 trackers, who will
be able to cope with 10,000 new cases a day. That is very
important because currently new cases are running at about 2,500
a day. They will be able to trace the contacts of those new cases
and stop the disease spreading. I hope very much, notwithstanding
the occasional difficulty of these exchanges—and I totally
appreciate the role that the right hon. and learned Gentleman has
to fulfil—that he will support us as we go forward, that he will
be positive about the test, track and trace operation and that we
can work together to use it to take our country forward. That is
what the people of this country want to see.
I am very happy to work with the Prime Minister on that. He knows
that from our previous exchanges.
Every Thursday, we go out and clap for our carers. Many of them
are risking their lives for the sake of all of us. Does the Prime
Minister think it is right that careworkers coming from abroad
and working on our frontline should have to pay a surcharge of
hundreds, sometimes thousands of pounds to use the NHS
themselves?
The Prime Minister
I have thought a great deal about this, and I accept and
understand the difficulties faced by our amazing NHS staff. Like
the right hon. and learned Gentleman, I have been a personal
beneficiary of carers who have come from abroad and frankly saved
my life. I know exactly the importance of what he asks. On the
other hand, we must look at the realities. This is a great
national service—it is a national institution—that needs funding,
and those contributions help us to raise about £900 million. It
is very difficult in the current circumstances to find
alternative sources, so with great respect for the right hon. and
learned Gentleman’s point, I think it is the right way forward.
I am disappointed, because the Prime Minister knows how raw this
is. The fee in question, the immigration health surcharge, is
currently £400 a year. From October, that goes up to £624 a year.
For a careworker on the national living wage, that will require
working for 70 hours to pay off the fee.
The Doctors Association and a number of medical groups wrote to
the Home Secretary this week, and they set it out this way:
“At a time when we are mourning colleagues, your steadfast
refusal to reconsider the deeply unfair immigration health
surcharge is a gross insult to all”—
of us—
“who are serving this country at its time of greatest need.”
We agree, and Labour will table amendments to the immigration
Bill to exempt NHS and careworkers from this charge. Can I urge
the Prime Minister to reconsider his view as we go through this
crisis?
The Prime Minister
I have given my answer, but what I will say is that I think that
it is important that we support our NHS and that we invest
massively in our NHS. This Government—this one nation
Conservative Government—are determined to invest more in our NHS
than at any time in modern memory. We have already begun that,
and we will want to see our fantastic frontline workers paid
properly. That is, I think, the best way forward. I want to see
our NHS staff paid properly, our NHS supported and I want to
continue our programme not just of building 40 more hospitals,
but recruiting 50,000 more nurses and investing hugely in our
NHS, and I believe that will be warmly welcomed across the whole
of our establishment of our fantastic NHS.
