Asked by
To ask Her Majesty’s Government what progress they have made in
implementing the recommendations of the independent review into
the application of sharia law in England and Wales published in
February 2018 (Cm 9560), in order to protect Muslim women, and
what assessment they have made of Resolution 2253 (2019) by the
Council of Europe that all Islamic marriages should also be
registered as civil marriages.
The Advocate-General for Scotland (Lord Keen of Elie) (Con)
My Lords, further work on the issues raised began in the spring,
as announced in the Integrated Communities Action Plan. This work
will explore reform possibilities in relation to the issue that
some people may marry in a way that does not create a legally
recognised marriage. This exploration will be conducted
independently of the wider Law Commission review of marriage
ceremony law.
(CB)
My Lords, in thanking the Minister for his reply, I ask whether
he is aware that my Question is almost identical to the one I
asked on 28 February. I have had no response, nor seen any
evidence of progress on this crucial issue, which causes such
suffering to Muslim women through the application of sharia law.
Many come to me desperate, destitute and even suicidal, with no
rights following asymmetrical divorce inflicted by their
husbands, or trapped in unhappy polygamous marriages. The
recommendations of the sharia law review and the message from the
Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe are totally
consistent with the objectives of my Private Member’s Bill, which
requires all religious marriages to be registered, thereby giving
women the rights they so urgently need. Therefore, I ask the
Minister for an assurance that the legislation will be introduced
with great urgency, as so many women are suffering in ways that
would make the suffragettes turn in their graves.
My Lords, we understand and recognise that there is a very real
issue here, but it is more of a social issue than a legal one. I
cannot accept that the proposed way forward set out by the noble
Baroness in her Private Member’s Bill is appropriate. Her
proposals would effectively deregulate marriage ceremony law and
undermine the safeguards in it, including those relating to sham
and forced marriages.
(Con)
I disagree with my noble friend the Minister. It is not a social
issue, but a legal one. Therefore, I entirely agree with the
noble Baroness, Lady Cox, that this needs to be looked at
urgently. We can have a register that allows imams to register
nikah ceremonies easily. We need to do this as quickly as
possible.
My noble friend is perfectly entitled to disagree with me, and I
in turn disagree with her. Let us be clear on what the position
is, because some of this proceeds on a misapprehension. It is
perfectly possible to perform a lawful marriage in England and
Wales under sharia law provided that the relevant mosque has been
identified and registered by the registrars as a place for the
performance of that ceremony, and a person has been identified by
the registrars as suitable to be present for that ceremony. The
law of England and Wales has then to be adhered to. Sharia law is
not the law of England and Wales; it has no standing. Our
national marriage law prevails in these matters. I reiterate: we
understand and appreciate that there is a social issue here,
because many are not aware of the true position of our law in
respect of marriage. Indeed, many are not prepared to adhere to
that in circumstances where one or other party may be ignorant of
their true position and its consequences.
(LD)
My Lords, the Council of Europe, referred to in the Question from
the noble Baroness, Lady Cox, is very clear that where human
rights are concerned there is no room for cultural exceptions.
The independent review, commissioned by the Government in 2016,
is also clear on its main recommendation that Muslim women
undergoing Islamic marriage must be protected by British civil
law. Too many vulnerable women are suffering and will suffer
until the Government pull their finger out and implement this
recommendation.
My Lords, with great respect, some of what has been said by the
Council of Europe in its Resolution 2253 does not reflect the
true position of marriage law in England and Wales. In
particular, the reference to civilly registering a marriage is
inept. It does not reflect the true position of our law in
England and Wales. Civil registration per se is not a route to a
lawful marriage.
(Lab)
My Lords, in the present circumstances, what is the position of
triple talaq? Is it still possible for a Muslim man to divorce
his wife just by saying, “Talaq, talaq, talaq”? Is the Minister
aware that in India a Bill is before the two Houses of Parliament
to reform the triple talaq Act? Will Her Majesty’s Government
follow that example?
My Lords, divorce in England and Wales is determined by the
national law. It is not determined by religious observance or
religious laws. Therefore, it will be necessary for a party
seeking a divorce from a lawful marriage made in England and
Wales to proceed under our national law. We appreciate that there
are social difficulties regarding some religious groups in
circumstances where a person might believe that they have been
divorced under religious provisions, whether of the type the
noble Lord just referred to, under sharia law, or indeed
sometimes regarding the get in the context of the Jewish
religion.
(CB)
Does the Minister agree that culture should never trump human
rights and that all citizens of this country should enjoy equal
protection under the law?
It is essential that all citizens have equal protection under the
law. It is also important that they are treated equally under the
law.
(Con)
Does my noble friend agree that it is perhaps a little misleading
to refer to sharia rules as law? All religions have a perfect
right to set out the regulations of their faith, but is it not
wrong to refer to those regulations as law? With the exception of
the Church of England’s ecclesiastical and religious regulations,
they are subject to UK law. Consequently, does my noble friend
agree that if sharia regulations—for example, on the treatment of
women—conflict with UK law, then UK law, being sovereign,
overrides these regulations?
My noble friend is absolutely right. Clearly, national law must
be adhered to. I do not take exception to the reference to
religious law, or sharia, in a social context. There are parties
who wish to adhere to that because of their religious beliefs,
but they must understand that it is subject to the law of the
land, and that sharia is not the law of the land and has no
standing as such.
