Wales Assembly statement on Animal Welfare - Nov 13

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I'm pleased to have this opportunity to update Members on work to continue to improve standards of animal welfare in Wales. Animal welfare remains high on my agenda as we move through this time of change and uncertainty. It is vital we maintain our standards and expectations, particularly considering the pressures faced as we leave the European Union. I'm very clear: the Welsh Government will not compromise on animal welfare. I'm determined we will continue to lead the way in raising standards, both now and after we leave the EU.

At this year’s Royal Welsh Show, I chaired a dry weather summit to engage with key stakeholders on the prolonged dry weather we experienced this summer, where animal welfare concerns were raised. I committed to helping the industry build its resilience to a whole range of issues, including fluctuating weather conditions. As a consequence of the summit, I am ensuring basic payment scheme payments, including loans for those eligible who have applied, are made on 3 December. I also announced a donation of £0.5 million to provide short-term support to those families most in need. Working with rural charities, we are on course to make funding available before the end of the year.

Working in partnership is key, as is engaging with enforcement agencies and the third sector. I've had the privilege of spending an afternoon shadowing an RSPCA Cymru inspector to witness how their vital services are delivered. I said in June I've asked RSPCA Cymru to consider the recommendation of the 2014 Wooler report for the RSPCA inspectorate to receive statutory status under the Animal Welfare Act 2006. RSPCA Cymru has now employed a member of staff to investigate this, my officials have received an outline programme, and we'll be meeting them soon to discuss this groundbreaking approach.

I've also spent time with the police rural crime team in north Wales to explore how we might reduce the number of livestock attacks. These are distressing for both the animals and the farmers involved and are costly in emotional and financial terms.

I regularly meet Julie Morgan AM, Councillor Dilwar Ali and David Joyce from the Communication Workers Union to discuss dangerous dogs and responsible ownership. There are harrowing incidents of dog attacks that result in life-changing injuries. Whilst much of the legislation surrounding dangerous dogs is non-devolved, the obvious lack of responsible ownership associated with these attacks is devolved. These are our citizens, our animals, our health impacts and our life-changing traumas. I'm corresponding with the UK Government and ensuring that we use the powers we have.

I've always been clear, animals should be slaughtered as close to the farm as possible. I will continue to ensure the welfare of animals during transport and at the time of killing continues to improve in Wales. The Welsh Government is investing in the small and medium slaughterhouse sector to ensure they are more resilient for the future. The food business investment scheme, which is currently open to expressions of interest, is weighted towards slaughterhouses planning improvements to the safeguarding of animal welfare, including the installation and upgrade of closed-circuit television systems. This grant can be used to reinforce the high animal welfare standards already achieved in Welsh slaughterhouses.

I've previously stated I will consider legislating to ensure CCTV is in place in all Welsh slaughterhouses. However, I am committed to working with food business operators in a supportive relationship to achieve the same objective. CCTV is useful in safeguarding animal welfare and is also an effective training tool.

Raising the profile of the food and drink industry is a priority for Welsh Government, and I am proud to promote Welsh provenance. Our food labelling legislation sets the standards required of food producers to meet its obligation in providing information to the consumer. All fresh, chilled and frozen pork, lamb, goat and poultry meat must be labelled with an indication of origin, meaning mandatory labelling of the place of rearing and place of slaughter of the animal from which the meat is obtained.

With nearly all UK supermarkets committed to 100 per cent free-range eggs by 2025, I have asked the Wales animal health and welfare framework group to review the available evidence on the welfare and biosecurity impact of different production systems. Ninety per cent of eggs produced in Wales are free range, which is much higher than anywhere else in the UK. It is my ambition for Wales to become a free-range nation for egg production.

We've worked in partnership to review and update our laying hens and pullets and broiler codes of practice. Work continues on these codes to allow them to be laid before summer recess. These codes will include guidance to reduce incidence of injurious pecking. The codes of practice for the welfare of horses, and one for dogs, were published yesterday. The welfare of game birds is a priority for me. Officials are working with the shooting industry and welfare organisations to review and update our existing code of practice for the welfare of game birds. It is important the code reflects the latest husbandry and management techniques, and standards of care the law requires.

Information on the supply chain of puppies is of particular significance in this process, and a number of colleagues have raised the issue of Lucy’s law with me over the last few months. It is essential we address the root cause of any welfare concerns in changes to legislation. Last week, I announced we are undertaking a consultation early in the new year on this important issue. Whilst I support the Farm Animal Welfare Committee's opinion in favour of universal use of well-designed and operated free farrowing systems, I believe this should only be implemented if piglet mortality rates are uncompromised. I will maintain a close interest in new developments in husbandry systems that may provide the answer to the conflict between sow and piglet welfare.

Good animal health and welfare are central to our approach in Wales; for example, through the HerdAdvance animal health planning initiative, launched at the Welsh Dairy Show. Prevention is always better than cure. It reduces the need for antibiotics, lessening the risk of antimicrobial resistance. The continued effectiveness of antibiotics underpins our one health agenda. This is World Antibiotic Awareness Week, and I urge AMs to become antibiotic guardians, as I have done today—[Interruption.] 

Okay? Thank you.

Thank you.

I hope the Minister recovers her voice shortly. Thank you, Minister, for your statement, or Cabinet Secretary, it's very much appreciated. Animal welfare is one of the issues that is always one of the big issues that are in most Members' postbags. Periodically, there are campaigns, but I never find a time in the year where some issue on animal welfare isn't capturing the public's imagination. And it is beneficial that this institution does have a vast array of responsibilities and powers available to itself to bring either forward legislation or regulation in this particular field, compared to where we were 20 years ago.

If I could touch on a couple of points out of the statement, because I appreciate it's only a 30-minute statement, it is, so I don't want to take other Members' times, but if I could touch on the Lucy's law proposal, I know that the Cabinet Secretary met campaigners around Lucy's law last week, and, sadly, I didn't have the opportunity because I was unwell at the time, but I know I'm tied up on a future date to meet with them. Could the Cabinet Secretary confirm what type of consultation she will be bringing forward in the new year? Third-party selling of puppies and kittens is an issue that we have talked about much in this Chamber and it is a rather unfortunate tag that, in particular, west Wales has been home to much of the puppy farming industry, and I'm sure we want to lose that tag as soon as possible and get back to responsibilities in this area. So, the sooner we can legislate in this field, I know that many members of the public and, indeed, Members on this side of the Chamber would be very grateful.

The responsibilities around education of the public are really important. The Cabinet Secretary touches on the work that Julie Morgan, the Member for Cardiff North, has done around the postal workers union, as well, and it is a huge responsibility when members of the public take on owning an animal of whatever type. I, too, have been with the RSPCA on a drive-by and I was overwhelmed, in some respects, by this one incident that we looked at, where there were four dogs in this one particular house, and the owner didn't have an idea at all about the responsibilities on them to neuter the dogs and provide good food for the dogs and a good home, and, in the end, the RSPCA ended up taking those dogs out of that environment. But I always remember the inspector saying, 'I bet you I'll come back in a month's time and there'll be a dog back in that house, and the process will be begun all over again.' It is a huge responsibility to be a pet owner, and, therefore, the job and role of educating people about those responsibilities is a huge performance that Government can undertake with the levers it has available to itself.

I notice, at the start of the statement, the Cabinet Secretary talked about the money that had been made available back in the summer to the charities—the £500,000. It has been a very difficult summer; the feeding and welfare of livestock has been a big issue on farms. I'm just a little surprised that that money hasn't already hit the charities, because as the Minister identified, this money was designated for families under particular stress at that time. We are now in November. I think the statement indicates that that money is going to be made available at the back end of this year. Could the Minister clarify why it has not been made available to the charities so it can be dispersed amongst the agricultural community, to the needy cases that require that money coming forward?

And labelling—you also touched on labelling. The informed choice of the consumer is a really important area. Only recently, there was some social media activity around the purchase of chicken within one of our major supermarkets, and on the front of the packaging it highlighted that it was British chicken, when you turned it over, 'Produce of Thailand'. That just clearly is unacceptable. I believe, in the environment and sustainability committee, we have taken evidence recently that indicates we do have powers in this particular area around labelling, and so I would be interested to understand: has the Cabinet Secretary given any consideration to exercising those powers so that the consumer can be informed on welfare when they are making the purchases that they require?

And my one final other point, if I may, Deputy Presiding Officer, is capacity within local authorities and enforcement agencies. It is all well and good us passing legislation, passing regulation here and talking very grandly in this wonderful Chamber of ours, but the reality is you need the enforcement agencies to be resourced in the communities, whether they be local authorities or the police themselves, to actually use that legislation and those regulations to drive up standards of welfare. We know full well that, very often, local authorities, in particular when it comes to trading standards, have not got the officers to undertake many of the basic functions that are placed on them. So, what assessment has the department made of local authorities and third-party agencies' abilities to actually implement the legislation and regulation we have now around animal welfare, let alone new regulation and legislation that will be brought forward?

I thank Andrew R.T. Davies for his list of questions. I quite agree with you. I think probably all of us in the Chamber, as Assembly Members—. Certainly, the biggest postbags I've always had, as the Assembly Member for Wrexham, are around animal health and welfare. It's very interesting that the only correspondence I've had as an AM in relation to the technical notices that are coming out of the UK Government around Brexit have actually been around animals. I think we're certainly a nation of people who absolutely love our animals.

Andrew mentioned Lucy's law and what we would be consulting on. I've made it very clear we will be launching a consultation in the new year on the impact of banning the third-party sales of puppies and kittens in Wales, and as I say, we will be doing that early in the new year.

I think you're right about education, and certainly the work that I've been doing with Julie Morgan and the meetings we've had with Councillor Dilwar Ali and David Joyce—. I mean, some of the photographs that David has brought to those meetings of injuries that have been sustained by postal workers just going about doing their job are truly horrific. And you're quite right; it is a great joy to be a pet owner, but it is a huge responsibility, and it's very important that we work with the public around education, and in our schools too. I've had conversations with the Cabinet Secretary for Education around this, and she's very supportive.

You asked about the £0.5 million that I announced at the Royal Welsh Show around the dry weather summit and why it hasn't gone out to charities. My understanding is that the charities felt that that money would be more needed in January and February of next year. I'm due to meet the Royal Agricultural Benevolent Institution—I think it's on 28 November—when I will clarify that, but that money is certainly ready to go to those families who, as you say, within—. We had that very long, hard, wet winter, then we had the snow in the spring, then we had the dry weather. Autumn's brought flooding. So, as we approach winter, I'm very conscious that there are many in the agricultural sector that will require funding, and that was the reason I brought the basic payment loans forward. It's the first time I've done that. So, on 3 December, people will know that if they don't get their basic payment, so long as they've applied for the loan, they will get that.

The points you made around labelling are absolutely right, and the incident that you described is completely unacceptable. We do have some powers, but I'm also working with DEFRA in relation to labelling, and, again, post Brexit, I think there is an opportunity to make sure that we absolutely beef up our labelling to make sure that people know—consumers can be absolutely confident in what they are buying.

I think you're right about education, and certainly the work that I've been doing with Julie Morgan and the meetings we've had with Councillor Dilwar Ali and David Joyce—. I mean, some of the photographs that David has brought to those meetings of injuries that have been sustained by post workers just going about doing their job are truly horrific. And you're quite right; it is a great joy to be a pet owner, but it is a huge responsibility, and it's very important that we work with the public around education, and in our schools too. I've had conversations with the Cabinet Secretary for Education around this, and she's very supportive. You asked about the £0.5 million that I announced at the Royal Welsh Show around the dry weather summit and why it hasn't gone out to charities. My understanding is that the charities felt that that money would be more needed in January and February of next year. I'm due to meet the Royal Agricultural Benevolent Institution—I think it's on 28 November—when I will clarify that, but that money is certainly ready to go to those families who, as you say, within—. We had that very long, hard, wet winter. Then we had the snow in the spring. Then we had the dry weather. Autumn's brought flooding. So, as we approach winter, I'm very conscious that there are many in the agricultural sector that will require funding, and that was the reason I brought the basic payment loans forward. It's the first time I've done that. So, on 3 December, people will know that if they don't get their basic payment, so long as they've applied for the loan, they will get that.

The points you made around labelling are absolutely right, and the incident that you described is completely unacceptable. We do have some powers, but I'm also working with Defra in relation to labelling, and again, post Brexit, I think there is an opportunity to make sure that we absolutely beef up our labelling to make sure that people know—consumers can be absolutely confident in what they are buying.

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary, for your statement—a bit of a scattergun statement, I think. You covered about 15 or 16 different policy areas within the welfare of animals subject area. I want to pick up on the £500,000 contribution, as well, to rural charities, because many of us have supported rural charities over the years, through contributions or involvement in various activities. But for the Welsh Government—. And I made this point previously. For the Welsh Government to endorse, through its contribution, the fact that farmers are really dependent on charity now says a lot, I think, about where we are, or where the farming sector is, or where it finds itself under your watch at the moment, and I think that's quite an issue of regret for me, that you feel that you have to do that. It says a lot about where the sector is, these days, because what farmers want, of course, isn't charity but action: action to ensure the availability of fodder to Welsh farms over the coming months, so that they can protect the welfare of their animals through having sufficient food available. We remember how the Irish Government announced, back in April of this year, that they were going to support the importation of fodder to Ireland, much of that coming from Wales or through Wales, making it much more difficult, therefore, I'd imagine, for Welsh farmers to source the fodder they need, and making that fodder more expensive as well. I would much rather see greater action from Welsh Government than contributions to charity, as important as the role of those charities is. And, of course, in your response to the dry weather situation, you've leant on the basic payment to try and address some of those pressures—that very basic payment, of course, that you will be getting rid of, if you get your way in relation to future proposals for farm support here in Wales. So, what happens when the basic payment is gone? Clearly, farmers will be committed through the public goods and economic resilience aspects to fulfil certain obligations, but where will they have that security and that stability that they look for, so that they can keep their farms afloat and, of course, protect the welfare of their animals?

The RSPCA inspectorate to receive statutory status is something I would very much support, but of course the Wooler report was published, as you say, four years ago, so I'm just wondering how much longer we need to wait. Maybe you could tell us in response when you hope to take decisive action on this.

Likewise with dangerous dogs, we've been talking about this

we've been talking about this for years and years and years. I remember six, seven years ago when I joined with you in paying testament to the people that you name in your statement, and I remember events calling for action on this front six, seven years ago, as I say, and still we're waiting, and you do get quite impassioned in this section of your statement:

'These are our citizens, our animals, our health impacts and our life changing traumas.'

So you're writing a letter.

'I am corresponding with the UK Government'.

You say in the preceding sentence that aspects of this are devolved, so why aren't we getting on and doing something? I'd like to hear a bit of urgency, because I don't want to be here again in another seven years talking about this.

On stunning animals before slaughter, clearly there'll be an opportunity tomorrow to expand on some of this in a debate in this Assembly, but I'd like to ask whether the explicit labelling of food where an animal has not been stunned is one way of maybe at least ensuring that the consumer can make an informed choice.

The codes of practice for the welfare of horses and the one for dogs that were published yesterday—we welcome those. Of course we were promised them before the summer. Maybe you could explain why the delay. Lucy's law—likewise, I would urge the Government to get a move on. Maybe you could confirm whether it is your intention to make sure that there is legislation on that in this Assembly at the very least. And just finally, Deputy Presiding Officer, two issues that aren't actually in the statement: on 17 June you said that you'd investigate the need for new codes of practice on primates and other exotic pets. There's no mention of that in the statement. I was wondering if you could give us an update and whether you could tell us whether it is really a new code of practice that we need when maybe some of us would be in favour of an outright ban. So maybe you could tell us where we are at in that respect.

Finally, there's no reference at all in this statement to vets, veterinary surgeons, and of course given concerns around the sufficiency of the workforce post Brexit, for large animals and small animals, I'd like some reassurances that—I know you're on the case, but we need to know that there is a sufficient workforce here so that we don't fall back post Brexit in not being able to implement a lot of the aspirations that are in this statement.

Can I thank Llyr for his list of questions? It is a very big area of responsibility in my portfolio and it's very hard to just pinpoint it. I did look at perhaps having a statement on farm animals, for instance, or companion animals, but we thought we have it a bit more general.

You ask about the £0.5 million that I referred to in my answers to Andrew R.T. Davies, that we've given to the agricultural charities, but of course it's not that we want our farmers to be reliant on charity. However, it was very clear to me, certainly over the summer down at the Royal Welsh Show and at the agricultural shows and when we had the dry weather summit at the Royal Welsh Show, that the weather volatility—unfortunately a lot of our farming businesses aren't resilient and sustainable in a way that we would want, and as you're aware—obviously, you referred to the basic payment scheme going and being replaced by schemes that are in the consultation. I don't want to pre-empt the consultation, which only closed a couple of weeks ago, but one of the reasons why we want to look at having a new scheme is because we don't believe the basic payment scheme has enabled our agriculture sector to have that resilience and that sustainability that is needed when you have the unprecedented weather that we've had this year. Again, farmers—I'm not saying there won't be support for farmers. I want to make that very clear, and I'm grateful to have the opportunity. We have said we want to replace the direct payment scheme. However, there will be the economic resilience scheme and the public goods scheme that you referred to, and every farmer will be able to apply for both of those schemes.

You talk about the RSPCA and the statutory status, and I welcome your support for that. I'm certainly looking into that very carefully. I mentioned the RSPCA are doing a piece of work. They've employed a person to do that, and I had a discussion just last week with the RSPCA, and I do hope to be able to make more of a decision and an announcement early in the new year.

You mentioned dangerous dogs, and as I say, a lot of the legislation isn't devolved, it is reserved. Interestingly, on a couple of occasions when I've been out with the north Wales rural crime team, they clearly don't think that the UK Government's legislation is fit for purpose. So I'm not just corresponding. I'm corresponding with the UK Government,

I'm corresponding with the UK Government, I've had meetings on several levels around the legislation, particularly in relation to dangerous dogs, but also the meetings that I've had with Julie Morgan and others is to look at what powers we have. So, for instance, do we have the powers to look at fixed-penalty notices? Do we have the powers to look at licensing? So that is a big piece of work and I am committed to taking this forward as quickly as possible with Julie Morgan. 

You asked why the codes of practice were delayed. Well, I think there's one word for that and that's 'Brexit'. With the number of statutory instruments that are coming through, they've had to take precedent over the summer. I am probably clearing several statutory instruments a week at the moment—it's a huge piece of work. But we have to make sure that statue book is there on 30 March. So, that has to take precedent. So, you're right, we are looking—. I've promised to look at others: primates, exotic pets—do we need to look at ban? And that's something I'm happy to do.

I think the Member raises a very important point on veterinary surgeons. and, clearly, we have a very high number of veterinary surgeons who are EU nationals. So, it's very important that when I have my discussions with Defra, and we've got the next quadrilateral with Ministers on Monday here in Cardiff, that we leave the UK Government under no uncertainty how important this sector is to us. And I have done that over the past two years. At the moment, we believe we have the workforce, but, obviously, further down the line, I think there could be difficulties.

Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer. I'd like to thank the Cabinet Secretary for her statement and I'm very pleased that she has taken the time to meet Councillor Dilwar Ali and Dave Joyce from the Communications Workers' Union with me. As she knows, my constituent, Dilwar Ali, is involved in this campaign about dangerous dogs, because his young son was viciously attacked by a dog when he was in his own back garden in 2011, and he's been left scarred for life. I think it's true to say that we have been campaigning since that time for the welfare of dogs, really, and to try to reduce the number of attacks by dangerous dogs.

And some of the information that Dave Joyce has brought to us has been very distressing, and the Cabinet Secretary has referred to some of the awful injuries that postal workers have suffered. But, he has drawn our attention to the fact that the number of attacks are, actually, increasing in Wales, and a total of 167 postal workers were the victims of aggression from dogs in 2017/18, and this is a rise of 22 per cent. So, I wondered if the Cabinet Secretary had any comments about this apparent, quite a large rise in the number of attacks.

It's already been mentioned that the Cabinet Secretary is looking to see if there are any further powers that can be used. And I do commend the fact that she's doing that, because I think there are many things that could be done in a preventative way to try to prevent these awful attacks. We have discussed, here in this Chamber, dog control notices and we've discussed licensing and all these other issues, but I think it is important that we get a clear idea of what we can do and what we can't do. So, I look forward to an update on that when she's ready.

And I'd just like to, lastly, comment on Lucy's Law. I'm really pleased that there is going to be a consultation on this Lucy's Law, because I think it's a matter of vital importance that we don't allow puppies and dogs and other animals to suffer in the way we know happens.

Thank you, Julie, and I would like to pay tribute to Councillor Dilwar Ali. This campaign he's had, as you say, is on the back of a family member having life-changing injuries following a dog attack and, I'm sure, when he sits in those meetings with us, it must be even more harrowing for him. But, you're quite right, I think, just last week, we met again and, certainly, the information that Dave Joyce brought from the CWU was that the number of attacks are worrying. A hundred and sixty-seven people being attacked going about their daily jobs is completely unacceptable, and I am committed to doing all I can to work with the three of you to take this issue forward. I think we have to accept that the vast majority of dog owners are responsible—they take their responsibilities very seriously. I think, obviously, Wales was one of the first countries to introduce compulsory microchipping of dogs in Wales. We've got our breeding regulations that say that dogs should be socialised

dogs should be socialised as far as they can be before they leave the breeder. I do think that does have a lasting impact on the behavior of a dog later in life. I'll mention that there are elements of the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991 that are not devolved, but I am committed to continuing to work with the UK Government to address the deficits, as Dave Joyce sees. 

In relation to Lucy's law—sorry, I didn't answer Llyr's question around would I be doing it in this term of Assembly—obviously, we'll be going out to consultation in January, it will then be about looking for a slot in the very packed legislative programme, but I would certainly want to do that. I think it's something I'm personally very keen to do. I think it's really important that we work jointly on these issues and I am really grateful to the rural crime team up in north Wales. I think some of the ideas they have around this agenda are very helpful to me. I do think we need the UK Government to look at that legislation to make sure it's fit for purpose. Certainly, at the moment, I don't think it is.

Thank you for your statement, Cabinet Secretary, and the actions you have taken to improve animal welfare in Wales. I too support the introduction of Lucy's law and look forward to legislation to ban puppy and kitten farming. Cabinet Secretary, when do you expect to introduce any new legislation identified by the consultation?

Cabinet Secretary, a group of vets has accused DEFRA and UK Government Ministers of telling bare-faced lies about the effectiveness of the badger cull in England. The vets state that claims the cull in Somerset and Gloucestershire was working was not based on any scientific evidence. Cabinet Secretary, do you have any plans to abandon badger culls in Wales based upon these new developments?

An independent scientific review into DEFRA's strategy for controlling the spread of bovine TB, released today, has found that culling could reduce between 12 and 16 per cent of new cases in cattle, but that in order to achieve this more than 70 per cent of badgers would have to be killed. Cabinet Secretary, the report's authors recommend non-lethal controls such as a vaccination. Do you agree this is much better than driving our badger population to near extinction?

Moving away from wildlife and on to domestic animals, pressure is being put upon the UK Government to consult on banning the sale of fireworks. Given the impact fireworks have on domestic animals, particularly at this time of year, does your Government have any plans to consult on restricting the sale of fireworks and allowing organised firework displays only?

Finally, Cabinet Secretary, I welcome the fact that you have become and antibiotic guardian. The threat we face from antimicrobial resistance not only threatens our farm animals and our pets but also poses a danger to human health. Cabinet Secretary, apart from championing the cause, what is your Government doing to reduce the use of antibiotics in agriculture? Thank you. Diolch yn fawr. 

Thank you, Caroline Jones. In relation to Lucy's law, I think you will have heard me say that we will be having a consultation in January and I will then, depending what comes forward from the consultation, be looking at a slot in the legislative programme over the next couple of years.

In relation to the report that Caroline Jones spoke about with the DEFRA Ministers and the badger cull, I think there are two important points here. One is I'm not here to defend the UK Government's policy in relation to badger culling. I have made it very clear that we would rule out and England-style cull here in Wales from the day I've been in portfolio, and there is no badger cull here in Wales. What we have is a refreshed TB eradication programme that I introduced in October of last year. I'm committed to bringing forward an update on how the programme is working, probably around April of next year, when we've got a full year's data to be able to report on.

I think what we're doing, having a bespoke action plan on those farms where there is a significant breakdown and has been for many years, those bespoke action plans are all being undertaken as we speak. You'll be aware, I'm sure, that we had a vaccination policy in relation to TB and unfortunately the vaccination wasn't available for the fifth year. But, we have got some pilot areas 

some pilot areas where we have used vaccinations over this last few months. 

In relation to banning fireworks, that would be a matter for the UK Government, but I would be very interested to see anything that they bring forward.

And, as I said, I have become an antibiotic guardian today and I would urge fellow Members to do so. I think it's very important that we work with the agricultural sector to ensure there isn't overuse of antibiotics. And certainly the work that we've done in relation to antimicrobial reaction is very important, and that's been a significant piece of work.