Andy McDonald (Middlesbrough) (Lab) (Urgent Question): To ask the
Secretary of State for Transport to update the House on Govia
Thameslink Railway and his plans for rail electrification. The
Minister of State, Department for Transport (Joseph Johnson) The
shadow Transport Secretary has asked about the current situation on
Govia Thameslink Railway and...Request free trial
(Urgent Question): To ask the Secretary of State for
Transport to update the House on Govia Thameslink Railway and
his plans for rail electrification.
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The shadow Transport Secretary has asked about the
current situation on Govia Thameslink Railway and
electrification, and I will answer each in turn.
Performance by GTR has been unacceptable since the
timetable change on 20 May. GTR is working to increase
the predictability and reliability of journeys on its
network, including reducing the number of on-the-day
cancellations. On 15 July, it will implement an interim
timetable, which will allow GTR to slowly build up
services to the originally planned May timetable.
We have said that passengers affected by severe
disruption on GTR will receive special compensation; an
announcement will follow shortly. We have also
commissioned the independent Glaister review to make sure
that we learn lessons and that this does not happen
again. We have started a formal review of the franchise
to establish whether GTR has met its contractual
obligations in the planning and delivery of the May
timetable. We will not hesitate to take tough action
against it if it is found to have been negligent.
On electrification, the Government are clear that
passengers expect high-quality rail services. We are
committed to electrification where it delivers passenger
benefits and value for money. We will also take advantage
of state-of-the-art new technology to improve rail
journeys.
Over recent days, there has been speculation over the
trans-Pennine route upgrade. I can clarify for colleagues
that the upgrade will account for one third of our
anticipated expenditure for rail enhancements nationwide
in the next spending period. It will be the biggest
single investment we will make during this period,
demonstrating our commitment to improving passenger
journeys in the north.
The Department is currently awaiting Network Rail’s final
project plan. We have instructed it to prioritise the
elements that bring the quickest passenger benefits. We
will update the House in due course.
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Reports over the weekend said that a decision had been
taken to cancel the electrification of the trans-Pennine
route between Manchester and Leeds. If true, much needed
investment will be slashed, despite the north lagging far
behind the south-east in terms of transport spending. It
will kill any notion of a northern powerhouse. The
Government should be matching Labour’s commitment of £10
billion-plus to build a Crossrail for the north, not
threatening already promised investment. As the National
Audit Office report revealed, the technology that the
Minister says makes electrification unnecessary does not
exist. As the Transport Committee last week showed, rail
electrification is necessary to deliver the improvements
the Minister has promised. Will he take this opportunity
to confirm that the electrification will go ahead as
promised?
We also hear that GTR is being stripped of its franchise
unless performance on its services in the south-east of
England rapidly improves, and that the process could
start within a matter of weeks. If that is so, when will
the decision be made?
The Secretary of State says that he does not run the
railway. I can tell him that we have noticed. But if not
him, who does?
It is reported that the compensation package for
passengers impacted by timetabling disruption will be the
equivalent of one month’s travel. Can the Minister
explain who will pay for this?
We on the Labour Benches would welcome this incompetent
train operator being stripped of its franchise, with
services returning to public ownership. We have been
calling for this for years, as GTR has repeatedly
breached its obligations. Passengers have suffered
needlessly because of the Secretary of State’s refusal to
do so. Will he now do the right thing and terminate this
franchise?
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On the points made with respect to the railways in the
north of England, I remind the House that the Government
will have spent £13 billion by 2020 on transport in the
north of England, the biggest programme of investment in
decades. Specifically with regard to the trans-Pennine
route, we will be spending £2.9 billion in the next
control period, control period 6, between 2019 and 2024.
We are looking carefully at the options Network Rail has
presented to the Department and we will make a statement
later in the year, ensuring that we deliver the highest
possible value for taxpayers and significant benefits for
passengers in the north of England.
On GTR, as I said, we have put in place a hard review of
its performance in the run-up to the implementation of
the May 2020 timetable. No options are off the table,
should it be found to have been negligent in any
respect.
The shadow Secretary of State asked about compensation.
As he knows, we have already announced compensation for
passengers affected by the timetabling debacle in the
north of England on Northern. We will be coming forward
with a similar rail industry-funded scheme for Thameslink
and Great Northern passengers.
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There was absolute chaos again on GTR-Great Northern
yesterday for my constituents. The situation is not
getting better. How long does this have to go on before
they lose their franchises?
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My right hon. Friend is understandably exceptionally
frustrated and angry on behalf of her constituents. I
completely understand that. GTR is putting in place a new
interim timetable on 15 July. It is vital that this
timetable makes real progress in stabilising services on
Thameslink and Great Northern, on which her constituents
and those of other Members’ depend.
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We are constantly told by the Secretary of State that we
should not believe everything we read in the newspapers,
but it seems to be the only way we can actually get some
information we trust. The Minister stands at the Dispatch
Box and says there will be a full statement on the
electrification project later on in the year. That does
not engender confidence.
On the performance of GTR, for once I agree with the
right hon. Member for Mid Sussex (Sir Nicholas Soames),
who said it was an absolute disaster. For once, I agree
with the hon. Member for Mid Bedfordshire (Ms Dorries),
who said that this is a crisis. Does the Minister agree
with his colleagues?
According to a Library briefing, in 2016-17, Thameslink,
Southern and Great Northern received a subsidy of nearly
£100 million. Does that really reflect value for money or
does it not reflect the reality of franchising economics?
When will the Government admit that the franchising
system is broken and do something constructive about it?
The Minister says that the travel compensation scheme
will be funded by industry. What measures will be put in
place to make sure that the industry does not claw that
money back from the Government in one way or
another?
The Secretary of State has blamed the unions and Network
Rail, even though he is the one responsible for Network
Rail. He blames anybody but himself. Charles Horton
resigned as chair of Govia Thameslink. Does the Minister
agree that it is time that the Secretary of State looks
in the mirror, admits his culpability and does the right
thing and resigns as well?
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With respect to the speculation in the newspapers over
the weekend, I clarify for the House that we are
reviewing the options that have been presented to the
Department by Network Rail on how we can make the most of
the £2.9 billion that the Department and the Government
have set aside for this important scheme. It represents
one third of the entire enhancement budget across the
entire railway network for the five-year period starting
in 2019, and it is entirely right that the Government
ensure that we get good value for money from it and
deliver passenger benefits to the greatest extent that we
possibly can.
The hon. Gentleman asked about GTR. A new chief executive
is coming into post. I am due to speak to him later
today. He has the vital task of ensuring that the new
timetable that it is putting in place on 15 July
stabilises services as rapidly as possible.
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The Minister will know, because unfortunately for him I
keep WhatsApping him every time my angry constituents
tweet or email me, of the utterly unacceptable three-hour
gaps that remain between trains at peak times in commuter
villages. Four-carriage trains are turning up rather than
12-carriage trains; this is becoming an issue of safety,
not just reliability. I understand that franchise removal
could be the ultimate conclusion but, when he does his
hard review, will he look at the commuter villages as
well as the main hub stations in making that decision?
Can he just give us a clue: what would the alternative
be, are the risks worth it and will the service be
better?
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As my hon. Friend knows, I am in contact with her on a
regular basis about the situation affecting her
constituents using stations such as Royston and St Neots—
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Stations near my hon. Friend’s constituency—Letchworth as
well. Obviously, we see the pattern of services there as
having been unacceptable in recent days and we have been
pressing GTR to work tirelessly to ensure that it
improves performance as rapidly as possible. As the
Secretary of State has made clear, all options are on the
table for the outcome of the review should it be found to
have been negligent in any way in implementing this
timetable.
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Coming off the back of all the turmoil that we have seen
on Northern and elsewhere recently, is not this
equivocation on the electrification of the
Manchester-to-Leeds line just another really serious blow
for people in the north, who now feel overwhelmingly,
time and again, that they are getting a second-class
service from this Government? Will the Minister please
offer some political leadership on this issue and say,
“This line and its electrification is of such strategic
importance that we will make it happen come what may”?
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The Government are signalling their political commitment
to the north of England by spending £13 billion on
transport in the north in the years to 2020 and by
allocating £2.9 billion to the trans-Pennine route
upgrade alone. As I have already said, that represents a
third of the entire rail enhancement budget for that
five-year period. The trans-Pennine upgrade will be a
phased project. It will be a rolling programme of
enhancements, including major civil engineering projects
and electrification.
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Customers on Govia Thameslink Railway have only 28 days
to submit a claim under delay repay, yet this disruption
has gone on for the last 44 days. The amount of time
required to submit those claims is extensive. Will the
Minister ensure that everyone who has had a valid claim
since 20 May receives compensation?
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Yes, we are working very carefully with GTR and the rest
of the industry to ensure that proper compensation is
made available to everybody who has suffered on the most
severely affected routes. We have already done so for
passengers on Northern and other bits of the north of
England. We will make an announcement about compensation
for passengers on severely affected GTR routes,
Thameslink and Great Northern shortly.
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I attended an event last week at which many senior
members of the railway industry were present. Clearly, it
was well known that these problems would exist if the new
timetable were introduced. What is the Minister doing to
ensure that the industry advises him and his colleagues
of any problems that may exist in the future?
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The Secretary of State has set up an independent review
chaired by Professor Stephen Glaister, who is the chair
of the Office of Rail and Road. He is looking at all the
lessons that need to be learnt from the May timetable
changes to ensure that we do not repeat the same mistakes
in December 2018 and with subsequent timetable changes of
that scale.
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My constituents are still experiencing delays,
overcrowding and cancellations. In every meeting I have
attended with TransPennine, Northern and the Secretary of
State, I have been reassured that everything will be okay
once we get electrification going. The Secretary of State
is saying that we do not need to electrify all of every
route, so will the Minister reassure the House now that,
when electrification goes ahead, it will be the whole
route and there will not be cherry-picking of what is
most financially viable?
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The Department wants to get the best value for passengers
and taxpayers out of the £2.9 billion that has been set
aside for the trans-Pennine route upgrade. All Members of
the House should be able to understand that objective.
The Department is currently awaiting Network Rail’s final
project plan and we have instructed it to prioritise
those elements that bring the quickest passenger
benefits.
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My hon. Friend will be aware of the misery of the
constant delays and cancellations on the line from North
East Hertfordshire into London, and we are told that 15
July is the great hope. Can he say whether any programme
is being put forward or any measures taken for an
operator of last resort, in case the promises are broken
again?
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My right hon. and learned Friend is right, and of course
that is exactly what the Department is doing. We have a
so-called hard review team in with GTR at the moment
getting ready for exactly the eventuality that we need to
put in the operator of last resort, should the review
conclude that Network Rail has been negligent and does
not have the managerial—[Interruption.] GTR, I beg your
pardon, has been negligent and does not have the
managerial strengths to deal with the challenges that
that bit of the network faces.
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The Minister is being far too measured in his response.
He should stop pussyfooting about and put the boot in. He
should sack Southern and GTR, boost compensation for
passengers and hand over responsibility for rail services
in London to Transport for London.
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The Secretary of State has been clear that he is leaving
all options on the table should GTR be found to have been
negligent. He is clear that the operator of last resort
will be ready to step in, should that turn out to be the
case, but of course the Department wants to follow all
the correct processes in this matter.
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We are now into week seven of this Thameslink timetable
shambles, and there is no sign of the service getting
better. Never mind electrification—frankly, trains were
more reliable 100 years ago in the age of steam. Will the
Minister confirm that the compensation package that he is
to announce will be generous and that specifically, it
will be funded by GTR, because its shareholders, not the
taxpayer, should bear the pain for this appalling
performance?
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I sympathise with my right hon. Friend’s concerns. His
constituents, including those who use Hassocks station,
which we have discussed on a number of occasions, have
endured an unacceptable level of service, and he has been
a strong champion for them. They will receive
compensation and we will be setting out details of that
compensation plan in coming days. It will be comparable,
as the Secretary of State has indicated, with the
compensation that was given to passengers on Southern
about a year and a half ago.
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With trains cancelled and delayed and journey times
between Leeds and Manchester airport in my constituency
up by 12 minutes, how does the Minister think the
northern rail project is going, especially given the news
at the weekend that he is reneging on the commitment to
electrify the line between those two cities?
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I have already addressed the issue of the trans-Pennine
route upgrade. We await Network Rail’s final project plan
for how to make the best use of the £2.9 billion the
Government have set aside for it. It is a significant
investment, and it is entirely right that the Government
seek to secure the best value for money, both for
passengers and for taxpayers.
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I get no sense of urgency from the Minister about the
devastating impact this is having on my constituents. The
timetable changes will see a reduction in services for
passengers in Plumpton, Lewes, Seaford, Berwick, Polegate
and Wivelsfield, and since the disaster of the timetable
roll-out, we are constantly seeing short-formed
trains—which are severely overcrowded, station-skipping
in rural areas, where there is no other form of public
transport, leaving vulnerable passengers, young people
and people with a disability stranded—and late-night
cancellations. It took three hours to travel 50 miles
home last night, and three out of the first seven trains
were cancelled this morning. This is unacceptable. The
franchise must go.
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My hon. Friend speaks powerfully on behalf of her
constituents, and has done consistently. We are looking
at this as a matter of urgency. It is the Department’s
top priority to ensure that the unacceptable level of
service comes to an end and that passengers get the
standard of rail they have every right to expect. The
Secretary of State has been absolutely clear that all
options are available to him should GTR be found to have
been negligent with respect to its contractual
obligations.
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Seat bookings issued for carriages that do not actually
exist; new 10-carriage trains where only five are
available because passengers cannot walk from one end of
the train to the other; trains cancelled because the
companies do not have enough staff to run both parts of
the train; endless cancellations; toilets that either do
not work or where passengers get locked in, but where
they do at least end up with a seat—this is complete and
utter chaos. My constituents would dearly love to see the
Government gripping this and making sure it gets sorted
now, not in some distant future.
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The hon. Gentleman makes a powerful case on behalf of his
constituents, and I understand his concerns on their
behalf. We are improving the Great Western main line.
There is a substantial investment programme, and, yes,
there is considerable room for improvement, but it is
good that more than 100 million rail journeys will
improve next year as a result of the significant
investment the Government are undertaking.
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GTR’s performance has been abysmal not just for the past
few weeks but for a number of years, with constituents
unable to get home to see loved-ones and some having even
lost their jobs as a result of train lateness and
cancellations. The timetable fiasco is simply the latest
instalment in that record of failure. On Saturday
morning, I tried to get from Coulsdon South to the centre
of London and ended up having to drive because the trains
were cancelled. This company is incompetent and the time
has come for it to lose the franchise. I urge the
Minister to act.
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That is the exactly why the Secretary of State has put in
place the hard review. If GTR is found to have been
negligent, he will have the full gamut of options
available to him, including the removal of the franchise.
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I can catalogue similar misery endured by passengers from
Cambridge, but the key question is: how did this happen?
The conclusion I came to, listening to evidence to the
Transport Committee, was that at the key time no one was
in place to make the call. So let me ask: who is in
charge of our railways?
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We have a lot to learn as an industry from what went
wrong, which is why the Secretary of State has set up the
Glaister review, an independent review chaired by the
Office of Rail and Road. It is important that we learn
all the lessons from what happened in the run-up to May
to ensure that mistakes are not made again in December
and May 2019.
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The Government’s strategy is to combine track and train.
How does the Minister think this will improve the lot of
passengers?
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My hon. Friend refers to the Secretary of State’s
strategic vision for rail, published last November, which
seeks more integration between train operating companies
and Network Rail to ensure less buck passing and less of
the blame game in the future. A foretaste of how that
will work can be seen in the new west coast partnership
and the east coast partnership publications.
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The Campaign to Electrify Britain’s Railway has
calculated that the cost of electrifying the main line
between Swansea and Cardiff at today’s prices is only
£150 million, which is considerably cheaper than the
Department’s estimation. Electrification has been rolled
out across Europe, and indeed in Scotland, at a cost of
about £1 million per mile, while High Speed 2 will cost
more than £400 million. Will the Minister look again at
the CEBR figures and finish the job of electrifying the
main line all the way to the west of my country?
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Our focus in the Department is on securing the greatest
passenger benefits in a tax-efficient and value-for-money
way. It was found that electrifying the route between
Cardiff and Swansea would provide poor value for money
and little by way of incremental time savings to
passengers. It would not bring the significant journey
time savings we would expect for such an expenditure and
would result in significant disruption for passengers on
the line.
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I welcome the Minister’s commitment on compensation to my
right hon. Friend the Member for Arundel and South Downs
(Nick Herbert), which will benefit our constituents. May
I draw his attention to the problem of short-formed
trains? Too often, fewer trains are coming into crowded
platforms and they are short-formed, which forces
passengers to pack themselves into trains that are far
too small and in sweltering conditions. If GTR gets
nothing else right, can it please sort that out in the
coming weeks?
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Indeed, that is one element we will look at as we assess
whether GTR has managed to stabilise services following
the introduction of the new interim timetable on 15 July.
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People in Enfield who aspire to get on a train are
running up and down the platform in the mornings, but the
trains are full by the time they reach us, because of the
delays and cancellations. Yesterday, almost half of all
trains were either delayed or cancelled, and on 15 July
we get our third timetable in two months. This cannot be
acceptable. The Minister is a sight too relaxed for my
liking about this matter. Does he realise that people in
Enfield and further afield have completely lost faith in
the Government’s ability to manage the railways? And the
Government do manage the railways!
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We are working urgently on improving GTR’s performance.
It has a new chief executive coming in as we speak whose
task is clear with respect to the instructions he has
received from the Department, which are to get
performance back to where it should be as rapidly as
possible.
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Bedford rail users are facing misery, delays and
cancellations almost every hour. It is complete chaos. It
is clear that GTR has breached the terms of the franchise
and that it should be taken back into public ownership.
When will the Minister stop making excuses, get a
reliable timetable in place and commit to reinstating
east midlands peak services for Bedford?
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As I have said, GTR is introducing a new timetable on 15
July, and it will be held to account for the success of
that new timetable. We want services to Bedford to
improve as part of that.
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Following the answers to my hon. Friends the Members for
Batley and Spen (Tracy Brabin) and for Manchester Central
(Lucy Powell), can the Minister confirm that it is no
longer the Government’s commitment to fully electrify the
route between Manchester and Leeds, and will he tell us
where the Secretary of State is today—has he missed his
train?
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As I said, we await Network Rail’s final options plan for
how to make the best use of the £2.9 billion allocated to
the trans-Pennine route upgrade. As all Members will
understand, that is an important part of how government
makes use of taxpayer resources. We want it to deliver
the best value for money. That will include major civil
engineering projects and electrification.
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Govia is also responsible for Southeastern. As the
Minister will know from just a glance at Twitter this
morning, our constituents were telling us yet again that
they were suffering delays. Why do the Government
consistently put the shareholders of Govia above the
interests of our constituents? It is time for both
franchises to be taken away from Govia.
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I understand the hon. Gentleman’s concern for passengers
in his constituency. We want them to receive the services
that they have every right to expect. As I have said, we
are looking at GTR’s performance with that franchise, and
we will not hesitate to take the appropriate actions
should they be necessary.
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The Government gave my constituents a solemn pledge to
electrify the midland main line, only to renege on their
promises. The Minister’s response to my hon. Friend the
hon. Member for Middlesbrough (Andy McDonald) about the
trans-Pennine route seemed to indicate that they will not
proceed with the electrification of that route either.
Does the Minister not realise that reneging on solemn
pledges of this kind brings the political process into
disrepute? Will he now say from the Dispatch Box that he
will reverse those cuts in much-needed upgrades?
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Announcements relating to the hon. Gentleman’s questions
were made in July 2017. Passengers on the midland main
line will benefit from a brand-new fleet of trains from
2022, but we have made clear since July last year that we
do not need to electrify the whole route—every last mile
of it—to deliver improved long-distance journeys,
including more seats and faster journeys in peak hours.
That will mean less disruption for passengers. We will,
however, electrify the route from Bedford to the Market
Harborough area and Corby, and, later, the route from
Clay Cross to Sheffield to support HS2. We are also
delivering upgrades along the route to improve journey
times.
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Will the Glaister review panel be able to look into the
functioning and involvement of the Minister’s Department
in the setting of the new timetable, the timetabling
itself, the amount of influence that the Department had
in signing off the timetable and the amount of time that
it took to sign it off? Will the panel be able to look
into his Department as well as the franchises?
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The answer is yes, and the terms of reference of the
Glaister review, which are public, allow for that.
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As we have been talking about the north, I want to ask a
question about it. I believe that the Rail Minister is
also the Minister for London; it is a shame that the
Secretary of State, who has the whole country on his
watch, is not here today. If it is true that the
Department has not yet signed off the trans-Pennine
money, why can we not transfer the power to decide what
is best for the north from the Department to Transport
for the North, which is what the One North campaign has
been asking for?
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Transport for the North exists as a statutory body and
has the ability to ensure that all transport investment
decisions are informed by its transport strategy. We are
await with interest and excitement the publication of
that strategy later in the year, so that northern
transport authorities can prioritise appropriately what
they see as the needs of passengers in the north.
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The electrification work in the Severn tunnel have been a
big failure. Rusting kit has led to the closure of the
tunnel for three weeks and caused disruption to
passengers, and it is very poor value for money. What is
the financial cost of this electrification fault?
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Cost overruns on that project have been a feature over
the course of its life. We are looking carefully into the
issues that the hon. Gentleman has raised, and we will
follow that up with him directly.
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Does the Minister understand the depth of anger and
dismay in the north at the shadow that has now been cast
over the full electrification of the trans-Pennine route?
What assessment is he making of the impact on our economy
and on future inward investment?
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The Government are making a massive investment in
transport in the north of England, but Labour Members
seem to be intent on downplaying its scale. It is worth
reminding the House that £13 billion is being invested in
northern transport in the years to 2020, and £2.9 billion
is being invested in the trans-Pennine route upgrade
alone. It is entirely right for the Government to seek
the maximum value for both passengers and taxpayers when
it comes to how that money is spent.
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It feels almost like groundhog day. Last night, again, it
took me three hours to travel back to Brighton. What does
the Transport Salaried Staffs Association, the union that
represents staff—and I refer to my registered interest in
that regard—say? It says that 95% of staff now face
aggression from passengers whom they are unable to give
any information, because the management does not give
them any information, and 82% say that they have no trust
in the management of the franchise any more. When will
the Minister agree with passengers—and, now, with
staff—and get rid of GTR?
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Obviously, no staff in GTR or any other train operating
company should accept, or should expect to suffer, abuse
of any sort from passengers in these circumstances. As
the hon. Gentleman knows, a hard review of GTR’s
performance is now under way, and all options will be on
the table following that review.
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Since the timetable changes, travelling on Southern from
Eastbourne and Hampden Park has been horrific for my
constituents. I was told this morning that a journey that
should have taken an hour and a half had taken three and
a half hours. The Minister has talked about substantial
additional compensation for people travelling on
Northern. May I urge him also to make a commitment to
those long-standing passengers on Southern?
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The Government are committed to compensating passengers
on the routes that have been most severely disrupted
since the timetable change. We have already arranged
compensation for passengers on Northern and other parts
of the network in the north of England, and we will
shortly announce details of schemes for passengers on the
most disrupted parts of the GTR network. Southern’s
performance, while not perfect, has not been as severely
disruptive as those of the other two operators.
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