Work and Pensions ministers were answering questions in the
Commons. Subjects covered included... Universal Credit: 2017 Budget
Changes Child Tax Credits and Universal Credit: Two-child
Limit Youth Employment Universal Credit: Household Debt
Universal Credit: Private Rented Sector Evictions PIP:
Back-payments Young Disabled People: Help into Work...Request free trial
Work and Pensions ministers were answering questions in the
Commons. Subjects covered included...
To read any of these in greater detail, click on the link or see
below.
Universal Credit: 2017 Budget Changes
-
(Stevenage)
(Con)
1. What steps she is taking to implement the 2017 Budget
changes to universal credit. [905434]
-
The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Ms Esther
McVey)
I would like to start by thanking my hon. Friend for his
support in securing the Budget changes. We have increased
advances, so claimants can receive up to 100% of their
entitlement within days of a claim. We have removed waiting
days, so the time to the first full payment is reduced, and
we have given claimants an additional two weeks of housing
benefit to provide extra support when they transition to
universal credit.
-
I campaigned hard for those changes, along with Members on
both sides of the House, and I am delighted that the
Government listened and delivered. Does the Secretary of
State have any information or feedback on how those changes
are helping claimants on the ground?
-
Ms McVey
People are moving on to universal credit now with a
smoother transition. When on universal credit, they are
getting into work quicker, staying in work longer and
looking for more opportunities in work. They are also
getting more personalised support through the claimant
commitment, which is helping them whether they are in debt
or need IT support. This is about developing universal
credit to respond to people’s needs.
-
(East Ham) (Lab)
The modest changes in the Budget were welcome, but I wonder
whether the Secretary of State has seen the recent research
showing that food bank demand is growing much faster in
areas where universal credit has been fully rolled out than
it is elsewhere. Does she have substantial proposals to
solve the very serious problems with this new benefit?
-
Ms McVey
They were not modest changes; they were quite significant
changes, made after listening to what people said on the
ground and meeting various action groups on the ground to
see what was needed. We listened and we changed, and that
is why we have done a very slow roll-out. I meet some of
the poverty action groups across the country on a weekly
basis to ask what else can be done. All have welcomed the
changes we have put in place and the record number of
people we have now got into employment, but of course where
we need to give debt support or advances, we will continue
to do so.
-
(Erewash) (Con)
With universal credit being fully rolled out in Erewash,
can my right hon. Friend state how universal credit can
impact the claimant count numbers and what can be done to
explain like for like?
-
Ms McVey
My hon. Friend asks a pertinent question. Employment is
going up and unemployment is going down, which is reflected
in the numbers, but because this is a brand new benefit
that takes on people in work and people out of work, we are
seeing the number of people claiming double. We are now
giving support and career progression to people in work, so
we will see the claimant count increase and, in some areas,
double.
-
(Airdrie and Shotts)
(SNP)
Increased debt, job insecurity, rising stress, housing
insecurity and unpredictability of income are all
highlighted by Gingerbread as issues raised by single
parents in receipt of universal credit, and it states that
the Government need to go further. How does the Secretary
of State plan to address those problems and the estimated
165,000 single parents of pre-school-age children who are
highlighted by Gingerbread’s report as being at risk of
poverty and debt from new universal credit conditionality?
-
Ms McVey
As it is a brand new benefit, we are providing extra
childcare support, which is needed by people with children
and lone parents. We are also giving tailored support. The
claimant commitment and the one-to-one relationship that
people have with their work coach is about really
understanding the needs of the individual. That is what we
are doing to help people to get into a job, get a career
and fulfil their job ambitions.
-
(Wirral West)
(Lab)
The Department for Work and Pensions has been forced
recently to reveal that a fifth of universal credit claims
are being turned down because claimants are not managing to
negotiate the complex application process, meaning that
thousands of people are falling out of the system. Claims
must be made and managed online, even though, according to
an OECD study, 40% of unemployed adults in England have low
basic skills. Meanwhile, one in 10 jobcentres are being
closed, removing face-to-face support from communities, and
the Government are speeding up the roll-out of the full
service yet again. What action are the Government taking to
identify the factors leading to such a high level of
failure?
-
Ms McVey
Obviously, this benefit is not failing. That is why we are
seeing extra support and why we are seeing record numbers
of people in employment and record low unemployment.
However, the hon. Lady is right to talk about the low IT
skills that people have. Part of the universal support we
are giving is to educate and to enable people because the
IT skills they need to claim a benefit are the same IT
skills they need to get a job and to get cheaper deals
online. That is what we are providing. Again, if they are
in debt, we are providing that personalised support. As we
close some of the jobcentres, most important is the
outreach work that we do. As we seek to help more people
and some of the most difficult to help into work, we are
doing outreach work through the flexible support fund.
Child Tax Credits and Universal Credit: Two-child Limit
-
(Blaydon) (Lab)
2. What estimate she has made of the number of families
affected by the two-child limit for child tax credits and
universal credit since April 2017. [905435]
-
The Minister for Employment (Alok Sharma)
The aim of the two-child limit is to strike the right
balance between support for claimants and fairness to
taxpayers who support themselves solely through work. The
policy has been in effect only since April 2017 and
statistics relating to its implementation will be published
in due course.
-
The High Court recently found that the ordering restriction
on the two-child limit for children in kinship care was
unlawful. When are the Government going to introduce
regulations to make sure that the law is in line with the
Court judgment?
-
We welcome the High Court ruling, which showed that the
policy is lawful. However, the hon. Lady is absolutely
right: in terms of kinship carers, we are going to be
making those changes. This will have to come about through
regulations in Parliament and we will bring those forward
shortly. I would point out that, as the Secretary of State
made clear in her written statement, we will be making
changes to include not just those in kinship arrangements,
but children who are adopted and would otherwise be in
local authority care.
-
(North West
Leicestershire) (Con)
Does my hon. Friend agree that it is completely right that
in our country someone should be able to have as many
children as they want as long as they can support them, but
it should not be that the taxpayer has to subsidise them?
-
As I said in response to the hon. Member for Blaydon (Liz
Twist), the aim of this policy is to strike the right
balance between support for claimants and fairness to
taxpayers, but of course we do have exceptions in place,
quite rightly.
-
(Glasgow East)
(SNP)
When the Government came up with their two-child policy,
did they seek any guidance or advice from China about its
one-child policy?
-
I will just report that we have exceptions in place and of
course this policy is ultimately about being fair both to
claimants and to taxpayers.
Youth Employment
-
The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Ms Esther
McVey)
Youth employment has risen by 150,000 since 2010 and now
stands at 3.86 million. The UK has the third highest youth
employment in the G7 and the proportion of all 16 to
24-year-olds in work or full-time education now stands at
85%.
-
Youth unemployment has fallen by 43% since 2010. Will the
Secretary of State join me in welcoming the work in Moray
during Meaningful May, when 93 students have taken part in
work placements, taking the total for this year to 330?
Will she praise the 186 employers who have facilitated
these projects and explain what further the Department is
doing to get more young people into work?
-
Ms McVey
I will indeed welcome the work that is being done in Moray
not only by all the work coaches and the businesses there,
but by my hon. Friend, who does so much in his local area.
On top of that, Scotland has a different system in place,
with the youth obligation traineeships supporting work
experience, supporting sector-based work academies through
Skills Development Scotland, and supporting and getting
people excited about going into a job—excited about what
they can do and what they can offer Scotland and the world.
-
(Brentford and
Isleworth) (Lab)
Will the Secretary of State commit to raising the minimum
wage for young people so that they are not subject to lower
rates of pay, and to enacting a real living wage, as Labour
will, so that this Government’s promise of making work pay
is not an empty one?
-
Ms McVey
Obviously, the hon. Lady will know that we have increased
the living wage so that the lowest-paid workers have had
the fastest wage increase in 20 years. That is what we are
doing. What we will do—we are keeping this under constant
review—is give support to young people. First and foremost,
there are the apprenticeships, the traineeships, the work
experience and the education we can give them, all of which
are at record highs.
-
(Mid Dorset and
North Poole) (Con)
15. The all-party parliamentary group for youth employment,
together with some other APPGs, are hearing evidence as to
how the hospitality industry can help to boost employment
for young people, as well as be a career option. Once the
report is written, will the Secretary of State, or perhaps
one of her Ministers, accept an invitation to hear from the
group? [905449]
-
Ms McVey
I thank my hon. Friend for the work he does on the APPG. I
know how important youth employment rates are to him and
the group. It will either be me or one of my
colleagues—perhaps we will all be there at the APPG once
the work has been completed. We are putting the right
building blocks in place for young people. It is about
education. It is about that work experience. Many young
people have never had work experience, so they do not have
the soft skills. That is what we are trying to put in place
and we would be delighted to go to the APPG.
-
Mr (Huddersfield)
(Lab/Co-op)
The Tory party launched yet another policy group this
morning. Is it not about time that these groups were given
some serious work about how we really tackle youth
unemployment, how we get more kids into real
apprenticeships, and how we tackle child poverty, which is
not going down?
-
Ms McVey
I might not have said it enough today, so I will put it on
the record again: youth unemployment is down 43% since
2010. The number of children not in education, employment
or training is down 370,000 since 2010. That is what we are
doing. We are providing the building blocks to support
young people and to get them into a job, living
independently. That is what a Conservative Government
does—watch and learn!
Universal Credit: Household Debt
-
(Dulwich and West
Norwood) (Lab)
4. What assessment her Department has made of recent trends
in the average level of household debt of people receiving
universal credit. [905437]
-
The Minister for Employment (Alok Sharma)
The Government have taken a number of steps to prevent
problem debt, such as capping payday lending costs. We also
have interest-free advances within universal credit, and a
system of priority deductions to help claimants who are in
arrears.
-
A recent Trussell Trust survey found that 70% of
respondents were in debt as a result of the initial
universal credit wait and more than half had experienced
problems with their housing linked to debts and arrears.
Advance payments simply stack up more debt, and food banks
in areas where universal credit has been fully rolled out
for more than a year have seen an average increase in need
of 52%. The Secretary of State has it within her power to
make further changes to universal credit to stop this
avoidable hardship and distress now. Why will she not do
so?
-
As the hon. Lady will know, a report that was published
last year by the National Federation of ALMOs found that
more than three quarters of tenants who started claiming
universal credit were already in rent arrears. Other
research shows that after four months on universal credit
the number of claimants in arrears fell by a third. The key
point is to make sure that we get help to individuals and
that is precisely what the budget changes the Secretary of
State has outlined do.
-
(North Warwickshire)
(Con)
Could the Minister confirm whether, under universal credit,
claimants are more likely to be in work within six months
than they were under jobseeker’s allowance?
-
Yes, I can absolutely confirm that under universal credit
claimants can get into work faster and stay in work longer
than under the legacy system.
Universal Credit: Private Rented Sector Evictions
-
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and
Pensions (Kit Malthouse)
Housing benefit has been paid direct to tenants since 2008.
Universal credit replicates that so we would not expect to
see a change in landlord behaviour.
-
I am very disappointed with that answer because, having had
meetings with a number of residents associations and
landlords, I already know that the private sector is fairly
loth to let houses to people on housing benefit. The same
applies to universal credit, the reason being that the
payment goes direct to the tenant. I urge the Government to
at least have a default, if both sides agree, for the
payments to be made to the landlord.
-
It is deeply disappointing when Members of this House trade
their principles for perceived political advantage, as the
hon. Gentleman seems to have done on universal credit,
having of course previously been a strong supporter of the
coalition Government’s reforms. He knows full well that
direct payments to landlords are available. I have myself
met the two most prominent residential landlord
organisations very recently and, if he looked at the data,
he would see that the proportion of working-age recipients
of housing benefit and universal credit in the private
rented sector seeking support has not really changed over
the past 10 years.
-
(Wirral West)
(Lab)
It is reported that the Law Centres Network says cases are
now common in which eviction proceedings come to court
after the Department for Work and Pensions has failed to
pay rent directly to the landlords of universal credit
claimants, even though it says on a claimant’s journal
account that a direct rent payment has been made. What
action is DWP taking to address this issue as a matter of
urgency?
-
As the hon. Lady will know, we have taken significant
action to try to improve the situation upfront, not least
by providing an additional two weeks of housing benefit for
people transitioning to universal credit. People can
receive a 100% advance and help with budgeting support, and
of course a direct payment is available if landlord or
tenant require it.
PIP: Back-payments
-
(Glenrothes) (SNP)
6. What progress her Department has made on processing
back-payments for personal independence payment claims.
[905439]
-
The Minister for Disabled People, Health and Work (Sarah
Newton)
We understand the urgency of this matter and we remain on
track to begin making the first payments in the summer. The
exercise to identify claimants affected by the MH judgment
will start as soon as we have made the changes to the
guidance needed to implement the judgment. We are engaging
with stakeholders to update the guidance and once guidance
has been finalised I will further update the House.
-
Four months without even an update to Members of Parliament
does not sound like the matter is being treated urgently by
the Government. In January, when the Government were
dragged here by an urgent question to give a statement on
the court case they lost, the Secretary of State assured
the House that, if I wanted to contact her to arrange a
meeting to discuss a particular constituency case, her door
was open and she would meet me. Six weeks after I wrote to
ask for such a meeting, I got a letter back from a junior
Minister saying the Secretary of State was not available to
meet me. Will she apologise for breaking the promise she
made to me and will she apologise on behalf of my
constituents, and the constituents of other Members, who
still do not know what the Government are doing to sort out
this mess?
-
We have updated the House regularly. I published a list of
frequently asked questions and placed it in the House of
Commons Library on 28 March. I wrote to the hon. Gentleman
on 17 April again offering a meeting and I have yet to hear
a response. My door remains open and we are getting on with
great urgency to begin the repayments as soon as possible.
-
Sir (New Forest West)
(Con)
From a PIP application being made to when an award is paid,
what is the mode, the mean and the median waiting time?
-
I thank my right hon. Friend for his question. I cannot
answer with regards to the mode, the mean and the median,
but I can tell him that the average waiting time at the
moment is 12 weeks. We have worked very hard to bring down
the waiting time so that people can get the support they
need as soon as possible.
-
(Birkenhead) (Lab)
As PIP is the entrance to mobility allowance, will the
Government join the Treasury Committee and the Work and
Pensions Committee in asking for a full National Audit
Office inquiry into what is ostensibly a really good
benefit?
-
First, I would like to wish the right hon. Gentleman a very
speedy recovery. I can see clearly that he has had an
injury and I am sure I speak on behalf of all Members when
I say that I hope he makes a very speedy recovery. We of
course agree that it is really important that the NAO gets
on with its work, but the Secretary of State will update
the House shortly on progress.
-
(Ayr, Carrick and
Cumnock) (Con)
Will my hon. Friend confirm that this very important
exercise regarding PIP payments is not likely to require
any new face-to-face assessments?
-
I thank my hon. Friend for that question. I can absolutely
assure him that there will be no need for new face-to-face
appointments or assessments.
-
(Wolverhampton North
East) (Lab)
I have been helping identical twins who have the same
genetic condition, which involves learning disabilities and
associated health problems. Both were assessed for PIP at
different times by different assessors. One was granted PIP
and one was rejected. The case has now been resolved, but
can the Minister not see that the system is totally unfit
for purpose and needs overhauling?
-
The very fact that the hon. Lady says the case has been
resolved shows that the system is working. It is very
important that we make the right decision first time. I
have set in place a whole series of improvements to PIP. We
have followed the advice given to us by the independent
review of PIP and are working at pace to make the necessary
changes.
-
(Battersea)
(Lab)
As a result of the incorrect guidance produced by
Independent Assessment Services, formerly Atos, in relation
to daily living activity 6—help with dressing—will the
Minister tell the House how she proposes to estimate the
number of claimants who have been incorrectly assessed for
PIP, and to identify the claimants affected, provide a
correct assessment and pay all the arrears due?
-
I thank the hon. Lady for her question—we had a meeting
last week where we discussed this case. The matter was
brought to the Department’s attention by the Royal National
Institute of Blind People in March. We have looked into the
case and are absolutely assured that this is a one-off
situation, but it is very important to me that we learn the
lessons of how this happened. We are meeting the RNIB on
Wednesday to see what further action we can take.
-
But does the Minister not accept that the wording of the
correspondence that was produced by Independent Assessment
Services—sent to her by a number of voluntary
organisations, including the RNIB—suggests that the
guidance has potentially been widely circulated among
assessors, and that for contracted assessors to produce
independent guidance on social security law without the
Department’s knowledge suggests a serious problem with
contract management?
-
I do not accept the premise of the hon. Lady’s questions.
We are very clear that the personal independence payment
assessment guide, which is published by the DWP and is on
gov.uk, is the guidance that must be used by health
professionals. The particular case was investigated and we
have made sure that the procedures are in place to ensure
that this does not happen again.
Young Disabled People: Help into Work
-
(Corby) (Con)
7. What steps the Government are taking to help young
disabled people into work. [905440]
-
The Minister for Disabled People, Health and Work (Sarah
Newton)
I want to make it absolutely clear to the House that I want
us all to be as ambitious for disabled young people as we
are for all young people, enabling them to fulfil their
potential. We have a range of programmes to support the
journey to work, including the young persons supported work
experience programme, tri-work supported work experience
and supported internships and apprenticeships.
-
I am very grateful to the Minister for that answer.
Apprenticeships have proved to be a huge success story in
Corby and east Northamptonshire, so what steps are the
Department taking to help to encourage young disabled
people to take up those opportunities and ensure that they
are accessible to all?
-
My hon. Friend is a doughty champion for his constituents
and it is great to see the number of people with learning
difficulties or a disability starting an apprenticeship—it
rose to 22,100 this year, 150 of whom are from Corby, which
was a rise of 40 people on the year before. We want more
employers to offer apprenticeships for disabled youngsters.
The Department for Education has made adjustments to the
maths and English standards and Access to Work is
available.
-
(Bristol West)
(Lab)
Would the Minister care to explain to my disabled
constituent how new claim rules for Access to Work justify
requiring confidential contracts of and employment
information about the disabled person’s personal assistant,
and how do those square with the general data protection
regulation?
-
The hon. Lady raises a very specific case. Of course, I
will be very pleased to look into that, but let us be
clear: Access to Work is providing invaluable support. It
is enabling many more people with disabilities to play
their full part in our society, including work. We have
recently made a number of changes that have been widely
welcomed.
-
(North Swindon)
(Con)
When I ask young disabled people, “If you were the
Minister, what would be your No. 1 priority?”, the answer
is always to have an opportunity to work and, for some, to
run their own business. The NESTA innovative technology
fund was one of the most exciting ways to support disabled
entrepreneurs, through prize money and matching them up
with mentors. Will the Minister do all that she can to help
to reinstate this important opportunity?
-
I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend that we should be as
ambitious for disabled people as we are for anyone else,
and that includes enabling them to set up their own
business. He raises a particularly important scheme, but
there have been other innovations through the employment
allowance and the support that is available through Access
to Work. Indeed, Microsoft has just launched a fantastic
new fund of £25 million to help with assistive technology
and people setting up businesses.
-
Ian C. Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)
What assessment has the Department made of the impact of
the abolition of the independent living fund on disabled
young people?
-
As the hon. Gentleman knows, responsibility for the
independent living fund was given to local authorities,
which are very well placed to join up services in their
communities to the benefit of all disabled people,
including young disabled people.
Social Mobility
-
(Witham) (Con)
8. What steps her Department is taking to improve social
mobility. [905441]
-
The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Ms Esther
McVey)
The Department for Work and Pensions plays a vital role in
social mobility, including by helping people to enter the
labour market or to progress in work and earnings. The
number of people in employment across the country is at a
record 32.34 million, and that includes historically
under-represented groups, among them disabled people. As a
consequence, we have reduced the number of children living
in workless households by 600,000.
-
Training opportunities are vital to boosting social
mobility, because they help to get people into work. What
is the Secretary of State doing to work with recruitment
agencies, such as Prime Appointments in Witham, to enable
more people to get into work, especially those in part-time
work or on universal credit?
-
Ms McVey
My right hon. Friend is living proof of social mobility—her
family came here from Uganda, started a newsagents and
expanded their business—and is right to ask: how can we get
people into a job, and how can we help with recruitment and
apprenticeships? I am working with the Recruitment and
Employment Confederation to look at those opportunities and
also with the Secretary of State for Education—that is
where responsibility for apprenticeships is held, but we
will do all we can to support my right hon. Friend.
-
(Stoke-on-Trent
Central) (Lab/Co-op)
In Stoke-on-Trent, one of the best ways of achieving social
mobility is through our wonderful further education system,
so will the Secretary of State please impress upon her
colleagues at the Department for Education that properly
funded further education, whether that be sixth-form
colleges or other establishments, is needed and that they
must make sure it is provided?
-
Ms McVey
I will send the hon. Gentleman’s message to the Department
for Education, but in this Department we do as much as we
can, whether through traineeships or sector-based work
academies, to support young people. It is about choice: do
they want a job, an apprenticeship or further education?
-
(Shipley) (Con)
Helping more carers to get into work and stay in work would
certainly boost social mobility in the UK. I am grateful to
the Secretary of State for coming to Shipley to visit
Carers’ Resource. What progress has been made on developing
a kitemark for employers to help more carers get into work
and stay in work?
-
Ms McVey
My hon. Friend raises a very good point: how do we best
support carers, who do a vital job to support other people?
When I visited his constituency and Carers’ Resource and
met some of its carers, they told me they wanted a
kitemark—they wanted to know which was a good business, who
they could work for, who was deploying best practice. The
Department of Health and Social Care is working on this
with Carers UK, but we are also starting a new group
between Departments, and I encourage Carers’ Resource to
take part.
-
(Bristol East)
(Lab)
One of the hardest-to-reach groups of children are those
living in kinship care with chaotic family relationships:
one moment they might be with their real parents, the next
they might be being looked after. What discussions is the
Secretary of State having with the children’s Minister to
make sure they do not slip through the net?
-
Ms McVey
The hon. Lady is right about kinship care and to ask how we
can support kinship carers and those children, which is why
I was pleased to be able to say that through tax credits we
would be maintaining our vital support for kinship carers.
I am more than happy to speak to other Ministers to ensure
we give those children and families the best support we
can.
Universal Credit: Victims of Domestic Violence
-
(Leigh) (Lab/Co-op)
9. What assessment her Department has made of the effect of
the introduction of universal credit on the ability of
victims of domestic violence to claim benefits. [905442]
-
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and
Pensions (Kit Malthouse)
Universal Credit continues to support victims of domestic
violence to claim benefits through a range of measures.
These include special provisions for temporary
accommodation and same-day advances. Work coaches will also
signpost domestic violence victims to expert third-party
support.
-
I am grateful for the Minister’s response, but the
Government have still not committed to assessing the
operation of split payments or collecting data. Will they
commit to looking at specific areas of new universal credit
roll-out, such as Leigh, which has also been highlighted as
a hotspot by the local police, to ensure that we are
adequately safeguarding victims?
-
Obviously we take domestic violence enormously seriously at
the Department, and we certainly believe that we should
play our part in detecting and seeking to combat it. We
will keep the position under review. As we have said, we
remain open-minded on the issue of split payments. If the
Scottish Government proceed with their wish to introduce
them, we will note what progress is made, and will review
the issue in due course
Automatic Enrolment: Cheadle
-
(Cheadle) (Con)
10. What progress is being made on automatic enrolment for
employees in Cheadle constituency. [905443]
-
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and
Pensions (Guy Opperman)
Automatic enrolment is a cross-party success story, with
more than 9.6 million workers enrolled in pensions saving
and more than 1.2 million employers meeting their duties.
Approximately 9,000 eligible jobholders have been
automatically enrolled in my hon. Friend’s constituency,
with 1,600 employers meeting their duties and supporting
them.
-
Typically, the young are a difficult demographic to
encourage to save early, as retirement seems a distant
milestone to them. What steps is the Minister taking to
encourage more people entering the workforce to stay in
their workplace schemes to ensure that they have steady
incomes when they retire?
-
My hon. Friend is right, and younger people agree with
that. When NOW: Pensions carried out research, it found
that only 4% of its 22 to 29-year-old members opted out.
Our “Automatic enrolment review 2017” set out our plans to
make saving the norm by lowering the age of automatic
enrolment from 22 to 18. When an employee pays in, the
employer pays in as well, and the Government pay in the tax
relief.
Private Pensions: Windsor
-
(Windsor) (Con)
11. What progress is being made on increasing private
pension provision in Windsor constituency. [905444]
-
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and
Pensions (Guy Opperman)
Private pensions have been transformed by automatic
enrolment, which is a social reform of which all Members
should be proud. It involves behavioural economics and
nudge theory. In my hon. Friend’s constituency, 30,000
eligible jobholders have been automatically enrolled and
2,310 employers have done their duties.
-
I am delighted with the Government’s progress in helping
people to save for retirement, particularly through
lifetime ISAs and workplace pensions. Does my hon. Friend
agree that, given the open banking initiative and the
pensions dashboard, the FinTech industry can help to nudge
people to save more and create greater competition in the
private pensions sector?
-
The pensions industry can and should make the most of the
opportunity presented by FinTech. We believe that if it is
to succeed, it will be vital for industry and Government to
collaborate in the development of the pensions dashboard.
As others countries have shown, pensions dashboards are a
fantastic way of giving people access to pension
information in a clear and simple form, bringing together
an individual’s savings in a single place online.
-
(Horsham) (Con)
rose—
-
Mr Speaker
Well, the question was about Windsor, but the answer was
broad and expansive in its scope. The hon. Member for
Horsham (Jeremy Quin)—as befits a former constituency
chairman of mine—is a keen young fellow, and I think that
we should hear from him.
-
Young? You flatter me, Mr Speaker. I already had my excuse:
I was going to say that we were all taking a close interest
in the Windsor constituency at present. My particular
interest, in relation to Windsor pensioners, is in the fact
that they are being held back by a lack of knowledge about
their pension provision. Does my hon. Friend agree that a
properly constituted pensions dashboard would encourage
pensioners to take their own fate in their hands, and would
encourage accountability?
-
It is true that Windsor is the centre of the universe, and
we should all congratulate Prince Harry and Meghan on their
marriage at the weekend. It is also true that Windsor, and
all parts of the United Kingdom, will benefit from the
pensions dashboard. The internet has transformed travel,
insurance and other businesses when they have gone online,
and we believe that when the pensions industry comes out of
the Victorian age and goes online, there will be great
progress for everyone.
Attendance Allowance: Eligibility Criteria
-
Graham P. Jones (Hyndburn) (Lab)
12. What assessment she has made of the appropriateness of
the eligibility criteria for attendance allowance. [905445]
-
The Minister for Disabled People, Health and Work (Sarah
Newton)
Attendance allowance is available to those aged over 65,
and entitlement is based on the ongoing need for frequent
personal care and attention, or supervision, to ensure
personal safety. The Government believe that the current
long-standing qualifying rules for the allowance are
working well. It is a popular benefit. Nearly 1.5 million
people are currently receiving it, including 2,000 in the
hon. Gentleman’s constituency.
-
Graham P. Jones
Before Christmas, I raised with the Prime Minister the case
of Mr Walker from Great Harwood, in my constituency. Mr
Walker was a fit and able pensioner until, at the age of
69, he was run over by a drunk driver. He is now
quadriplegic, paralysed from the neck down. He and his wife
are struggling, and their Ford Fiesta is of no use
whatsoever. He has been released from hospital, and he is
not being given the help that he needs. Why is a previously
fit and healthy 69-year-old man not entitled to the
disability help that he needs—such as a Motability
car—because of his age?
-
The hon. Gentleman recounts the truly tragic case of his
constituent, and of course he will be able to apply for
attendance allowance, but that is not the only support
available. Clearly he will need support from the NHS and
adult social care, where a range of support is available,
and attendance allowance can be used on Motability aids as
well.
PIP Assessors: Mental Health Awareness
-
(Ellesmere Port and
Neston) (Lab)
13. What mental health awareness training her Department
provides for personal independence payment assessors.
[905446]
-
The Minister for Disabled People, Health and Work (Sarah
Newton)
Assessment providers write and deliver training for health
professionals; this includes how to identify the impact of
mental health conditions on claimants. We require providers
to have mental health function champions who are available
to provide advice and support. They must have at least two
years’ full post-registration clinical experience in the
management of the relevant conditions.
-
I suggest the Minister goes back and sees how that works in
practice. A constituent came to see me recently about their
personal independence payment assessment; they were asked
during the course of the assessment why they thought their
previous suicide attempts had not been successful. Does the
Minister share my disgust at that cruel, inhumane and
disgusting way of asking questions?
-
From the way the hon. Gentleman has presented that, of
course I would unequivocally agree that it was totally
unacceptable. The assessors are not given a script, and we
expect them to treat everybody with utter respect and
dignity.
-
(Chelmsford) (Con)
On Friday I attended a simulated work capability assessment
in Chelmsford and it was very helpful. What progress is my
hon. Friend making to ensure that all assessments for
employment and support allowance and PIP can be more
regularly recorded so that those with mental health and
other concerns have greater transparency?
-
I am pleased that my hon. Friend took the opportunity to
visit her assessment centre; I am always happy to arrange
these meetings so that hon. Members can see at first hand
what is usually a very professional, very compassionate
assessment. But of course we want to go further and make
sure that every assessment is a good assessment, and
recording is definitely part of our plans for improvement.
-
(Gower) (Lab)
Some 75% of claimants in Wales who appealed against
decisions to reduce or stop PIP were successful; that is
8,000 people in Wales who have needlessly worried about
having payments stopped. The Prime Minister and the
Secretary of State for Wales were unavailable to comment on
this at the Welsh Conservative conference on Friday, but
can the Minister tell the House when the Government are
going to get a grip on this situation?
-
Some 3.1 million PIP decisions have been made, and 9% of
them have been appealed and 4% of those have been
overturned. I am absolutely determined to make sure that we
make the right decision every time; we should get it right
the first time, and we have put in place a whole series of
actions to make sure that that is the case.
-
Dr (Central Ayrshire)
(SNP)
The Secretary of State accepted that there was a failure of
assessment of people with mental health conditions and said
that this would be remedied, but we have been told by our
job centre that guidance has not changed, and a young man
who is suffering from appalling post-traumatic stress
disorder in my constituency is still being treated as if he
does not qualify. When will guidance actually change? We
are still producing more injustices.
-
As I said in answer to an earlier question, we insist and
make sure that the healthcare professionals undertaking the
assessments are appropriately trained and have the right
expertise, and the guidance is kept under constant review
to make sure we get it right first time.
Pension Schemes: Fees and Charges
-
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and
Pensions (Guy Opperman)
The Government recognise that customers need value for
money, but lowest cost does not always mean best value. By
working with the Financial Conduct Authority, we believe
price transparency for trustees can drive effective
competition and allow asset managers who can add value to
thrive.
-
The Minister will recall my earlier question to him on 9
October last year, but is it not the case that all
essentially private pension schemes, defined benefit or
not, incur costs and uncertainties that significantly
reduce benefits to savers, and the only way to minimise
such costs is to establish a universal full-blown defined
contributions and defined benefits state earnings-related
pension scheme for all?
-
The hon. Gentleman will be aware that the Financial Conduct
Authority published the final rules in September 2017, and
that independent governance committees on personal
workplace pensions have had rules in force since January.
On his discrete point, surely auto-enrolment, with 9.6
million people in this country signed up to it, and the
enhanced state pension, which stands at over £1,250 more
than in 2010, are the answers to his question.
Disabled People: Financial Support
-
(Harlow) (Con)
16. What financial support is available for disabled people
who incur costs relating to their condition which welfare
payments are not designed to meet. [905450]
-
The Minister for Disabled People, Health and Work (Sarah
Newton)
There is a wide range of financial support available to
disabled people who incur extra costs relating to their
condition which welfare payments are not designed to meet.
These include: Access to Work, disabled students
allowances, disabled facilities grants, the disabled
person’s bus pass and railcard, and VAT relief on certain
items, goods and services.
-
I should like to thank the Government for instituting the
bursary scheme for disabled parliamentary candidates; that
is good news. On another matter, Scope, the charity
supporting disabled people, has found that disabled people
have £108,000 less in savings and assets, yet when they go
to hospital—not out of choice, but because they have
to—Scope finds that something like 50% of hospitals are
still charging disabled people to park their cars. Will my
hon. Friend lobby the Department of Health and Social Care
to remove those charges and scrap hospital parking charges
for all disabled people?
-
I am pleased to accept my right hon. Friend’s welcome for
that good news; it is important that people seeking
election should be supported in doing so. I am really
pleased to announce today that we have created a new
inter-ministerial working group to bring the full force of
the Government behind ensuring that every disabled person
in our country has the ability to reach their full
potential. It is by working across Government that we will
tackle issues such as the one that he has just raised.
-
(Stoke-on-Trent North)
(Lab)
21. One of the benefits, or non-benefits, that is available
is the crisis loan. My constituent, Mr Hayward, has been
told by the Minister’s Department that he owes £1,500 in
crisis loans taken out 13 years ago. There is just one
small problem with that: he did not take out those loans.
The Department cannot provide any paperwork to prove that
he did so. How can anyone have any faith in anything that
happens at the DWP? [905456]
-
I appreciate the hon. Lady bringing up that really
important case. We will take it away and get back to her.
Topical Questions
-
(Oxford West and
Abingdon) (LD)
T1. If she will make a statement on her departmental
responsibilities. [905459]
-
The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Ms Esther
McVey)
Further to our discussions in this House regarding
Motability and my promise to seek a National Audit Office
inquiry into it, I am pleased to announce that agreement
has been reached and that the NAO will begin its inquiry
into Motability.
-
I have a young constituent who has PKU, a rare inherited
disorder that requires a strict diet and treatment for
life. She had been in receipt of the disability living
allowance, but now that she has turned 16, she has scored
zero in every personal independence payment category. Will
the Minister meet my constituent and me so that we can iron
out this clear case of “the computer says no”?
-
I would be absolutely delighted to meet the hon. Lady and
to go through this constituency case with her.
-
(Stirling) (Con)
T4. Where are we on the transfer of welfare powers to the
Scottish National party Government? Whose court is the ball
in? [905462]
-
The Minister for Employment (Alok Sharma)
We always aim to work constructively with the Scottish
Government. Fair Start Scotland is a recent scheme that we
are supporting proactively. My hon. Friend makes a point
about changes. Introducing changes such as automatic split
payments is a complex policy area, and we are having a
detailed dialogue with the Scottish Government. There are
currently many issues for the Scottish Government to
resolve.
-
Mr Speaker
Of course, balls in court are always preferable to balls
out of court. I am sure that that is a point with which the
hon. Member for Stirling (Stephen Kerr) will be well
familiar.
-
(Birmingham, Erdington)
(Lab)
The Secretary of State has said that the pensions regulator
had concerns about Carillion pension scheme deficits in
2014 but failed to act. The Government went on letting
contracts to Carillion, despite repeated profit warnings,
and failed to act. Do the Government recognise that the
consequences of their failure to act include the
biggest-ever hit on the Pension Protection Fund—£800
million—and many thousands of pensioners losing out on
their pensions?
-
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and
Pensions (Guy Opperman)
It was a Labour Government who created the Pensions
Regulator in 2004, and I think we can all agree that there
are lessons to be learned from Carillion and other recent
high-profile cases. However, there are two options. We
either try to discredit an organisation and run it down
or—this is my choice—support the regulator, give it the
further powers that we set out in detail in the defined
benefit pension schemes White Paper and stress that the
vast majority of employers do right by their employees.
-
The DB White Paper proposes criminal charges for directors
who neglect their duties. Would Carillion’s directors go to
jail under the proposed changes to the law? If not, why
not?
-
I look forward to working with the hon. Gentleman as we
steer the DB White Paper into legislation, but the
legislation is looking at the future—it is not necessarily
retrospective.
-
(Crawley) (Con)
T6. Universal credit is scheduled to be introduced in
Crawley on 6 June. What support will be offered to my
constituents who will be affected? [905464]
-
Ahead of the roll-out, my hon. Friend’s local jobcentre
will speak to local partners, such as the local authority
and Citizens Advice, to ensure that claimants are supported
as they come on to universal credit. My officials and I
will host an induction session tomorrow for all colleagues
who have UC rolling out in their area in the near future,
so I hope that he will join us.
-
(Airdrie and Shotts)
(SNP)
Being able to walk 20 metres is an essential part of the
PIP assessment process, yet Ministers have told me in
written answers that they do not have a policy for their
assessment centres to have parking within 20 metres, nor do
they know which centres have such a facility. Indeed, the
centre that I visited recently had double yellow lines
outside. Given that not everyone has access to a home
assessment, what would the Minister say to somebody who
turns up for an assessment and cannot walk to the door?
-
The Minister for Disabled People, Health and Work (Sarah
Newton)
That is not only totally unacceptable, but absolutely
unnecessary. When people are invited to come along for
their assessment, there is an opportunity to talk about
their mobility needs to ensure that the centre is totally
accessible for them. Each centre must comply with the
equality responsibilities under the Equality Act 2010, and
people are also offered home visits.
-
(Southport) (Con)
T7. Will my right hon. Friend confirm that the record
levels of employment that this Government have delivered in
office have predominantly involved full-time and
higher-skilled roles? [905465]
-
Ms McVey
I can confirm that. Since 2010, three quarters of the
growth in employment has been in full-time roles, nearly
70% of employment has come from high-skilled work and, in
the north-west, 227,000 more people are in work and
unemployment has fallen by 141,000.
-
(Blaydon) (Lab)
T2. People with progressive conditions are meant to be
exempt from ESA reassessments, although my constituent
Glenn, who has multiple sclerosis, has one coming up, but
they will not be exempt from a PIP reassessment. Will the
Minister commit to removing that cruel and unnecessary
burden on people living with progressive conditions?
[905460]
-
We have worked closely with a range of stakeholders,
including the Multiple Sclerosis Society, to develop a
series of severe conditions criteria, which mean that
people will not be asked for face-to-face reassessments.
Wherever possible, we will make decisions based on the
paper-based evidence that is provided. We are also working
carefully to ensure that those same criteria are applied to
PIP assessments.
-
(Harlow) (Con)
T9. With 1,000 more people in jobs in Harlow than in 2010,
and with 5,000 more apprentices over the same time, will my
hon. Friend congratulate Harlow College and Harlow’s
jobcentre? [905467]
-
I of course congratulate Harlow College, but I also thank
my right hon. Friend for the enormous amount of work that
he does to promote employment both here and in his
constituency.
-
(Manchester, Withington)
(Lab)
T3. Recently, two constituents with serious and
deteriorating cerebral palsy both scored zero points on
their PIP assessments. Both require round-the-clock care,
but both were forced to appeal the decisions. Is it
acceptable that people with serious and deteriorating
disabilities are being forced to go through the courts to
get the support that they deserve? [905461]
-
It is well worth pointing out that the vast majority of
people go through the process and get the support they
need, and many more people are receiving higher-level
support under PIP than under disability living allowance.
However, when I hear of cases such as that, something has
clearly gone amiss, so I will be happy to meet the hon.
Gentleman.
-
(Chelmsford) (Con)
T10. What action are the Government taking to make sure
that parents cannot hide earnings from their child
maintenance payment calculations? [905468]
-
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and
Pensions (Kit Malthouse)
The Child Maintenance Service is working hard to improve
its recovery efforts and will be increasing the number of
individuals assigned to the financial investigations unit.
The Child Maintenance Service is working much more closely
with Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs to make sure that we
have as full a picture as possible of people’s earnings and
to ensure that people take responsibility for their
children.
-
(North West Durham)
(Lab)
Dupuytren’s contracture, or miner’s claw, as it is commonly
known, is a progressive condition that causes the fingers
gradually to curl up, occasionally requiring amputation. It
is a very common disease among former miners, and the
Industrial Injuries Advisory Council has made it clear to
the DWP that there is a link between the use of percussive
tools and miner’s claw. Why has the Secretary of State
chosen to ignore that expert advice, and will she explain
why the condition has not been added to the industrial
injuries disablement benefit list of conditions?
-
I am working very closely with the independent advisory
board, which advises on which conditions should go on to
the list for which people can receive severe disability
payments. My meetings with the board are ongoing.
-
(North Cornwall)
(Con)
A small number of my constituents do not have the digital
skills or the equipment to be able to process their
universal credit online. What is the Department doing to
help them?
-
Ninety-nine per cent. of universal credit claims are made
online, and those who need support to gain basic digital
skills are offered digital support as part of our universal
support offering.
-
(Dewsbury) (Lab)
T5. My 20-year-old constituent Lucy has severe autism and
learning disabilities. She has been told that she must
attend a medical assessment to transition from employment
and support allowance to universal credit. Medical advice
says such an assessment will cause unnecessary stress and
anxiety, but that advice has been ignored by the DWP. Will
the Minister commit to reducing this burden on the most
vulnerable in society? [905463]
-
When people apply to go on to universal credit their
existing ESA remains in place, so it might be that Lucy was
coming up for her regular periodic assessment. It is really
important to us that people get the right support but, of
course, I will happily meet the hon. Lady to look into this
case.
-
(Mid Worcestershire)
(Con)
A number of my constituents have reported difficulty with
the Child Maintenance Service on issues such as undeclared
income and missing payments. What is being done to ensure
that complaints about the CMS are dealt with in a timely
manner?
-
It is typical of my hon. Friend that the welfare of
children in his constituency should be uppermost in his
mind. As I said previously, we are putting significant
extra resources into the financial investigations unit and
into making sure we are able to track down as much of the
income as possible of parents who should be paying for
their children. I am pleased to tell my hon. Friend that I
recently instituted monthly meetings with the Child
Maintenance Service to ensure that it lives up to the high
standards of customer service that we expect.
-
Ms (Westminster North)
(Lab)
T8. This morning I was contacted on behalf of a constituent
who has an inoperable tumour on her spine all the way down
to her pelvis, leaving her unable to walk and compounded by
arthritis and severe depression. Her ESA has been
suspended, her housing benefit has been suspended and she
is now threatened with the possibility of eviction. Can the
Minister help me make sure my constituent is protected? Can
she also help me understand why so many disabled people
feel they are living in a hostile environment? [905466]
-
Of course I would be more than happy to meet the hon. Lady
urgently, because she raises a terrible case.
[Interruption.] Let us remember that the vast majority of
people claiming ESA or PIP get a really good service and
get the benefits to which they are entitled.
-
(Angus)
(Con)
According to The Guardian on Saturday, a report shows that
the share of employees who are officially classified as low
paid has fallen to 18%, the lowest level since 1982. Does
that not show the Conservative party is the party of
getting more people into work and ensuring they remain in
work? What will the Government do to ensure that that
continues?
-
Ms McVey
My hon. Friend the Member for Angus (Kirstene Hair), who
does so much for her constituents, is spot on. The report
was published by the Resolution Foundation. Over the past
eight years, we have got a record number of people into
work—we have got 3.24 million more people into work. That
was step one. Step two was increasing the pay of the lowest
paid, which we have done. Step three has to be about career
progression and moving up the ladder, and that is what we
will now be doing.
-
(Edinburgh North and
Leith) (SNP)
Atos staff are being asked to squeeze extra assessments
into their working day, and one constituent had her
assessment cancelled several times because the assessors
were ill. The two things are clearly linked, so how will
the Minister change the system to ensure that staff are not
made ill by the job and people like my constituent can get
their cash?
-
I thank the hon. Lady for her question. As part of the
contract process, we ask healthcare professionals to make
sure that they provide a high-quality service. Officials at
the Department for Work and Pensions monitor those
contracts carefully. We do not ask for extra appointments
to be squeezed in.
-
(Brentwood and Ongar)
(Con)
A recent report by the Select Committee on Work and
Pensions showed that there are massive gains to be made by
deploying assistive technology to help people with
disabilities into work. What are the Minister and her
Department doing to extend this technology to people who
need it?
-
I welcome my hon. Friend’s question. I am pleased that we
have got more than 600,000 people with disabilities into
work in the past four years, and assistive technology plays
an incredibly important part in that. I have recently
announced changes to the tech fund in the Access to Work
programme, removing barriers so that people have access to
assistive technology, and there is much more that we want
to do.
-
Mr (Glasgow North East)
(Lab/Co-op)
The loss of the protected places scheme is likely to have a
devastating impact on disabled workers, particularly in my
constituency, where Royal Strathclyde Blindcraft Industries
employs 250 people, half of whom have a registered
disability. What has the Minister done to assess the impact
this move will have on disabled workers?
-
I am glad the hon. Gentleman asked that question, because
this was totally misreported in The Times today; we are not
going to close down any organisation at all that is
supporting disabled people into work. I have been in
ongoing discussions with the sector to make sure not only
that we have the existing scheme, but that it is enhanced
and mainstreamed into a new, improved programme.
-
Mr (Wellingborough)
(Con)
May I ask the relevant Minister whether I have got this
clear, because I thought that this understanding was given
to Parliament: where someone appeals against the loss of
their personal independence payment, their Motability car
will not be taken away from them until the decision is made
by the independent tribunal? Have I got that right?
-
I thank my hon. Friend for his question. If somebody has
appealed their PIP decision, they can keep their car.
-
(Oldham West and Royton)
(Lab/Co-op)
Unemployment in my constituency now stands at 7.1%, which
represents an increase of 1,200 on this time last year.
What is the Department doing to support people into decent,
well-paid and secure employment?
-
As the hon. Gentleman knows, we have record levels of
employment across the country. There are more than 800,000
vacancies in the economy and help is available at
jobcentres, with one-to-one personalised support.
-
(Chippenham)
(Con)
Will the Minister consider changing how budgeting loans are
administered, as they currently do not take into account
personal debt and so, ironically, can make budgeting
harder?
-
Budgeting loans are indeed available, but under universal
credit we also have budgeting advances. If my hon. Friend
has any specific cases she wishes to raise, I would be
happy to talk to her about them.
-
(Newport East)
(Lab)
Constituents who cannot afford a driving licence or a
passport cannot do an initial online verification of their
universal credit claim, meaning that they have to wait up
to two weeks in order to be seen for a personal
appointment. That is driving people to see loan sharks in
some cases, so will the Minister look at it?
-
I will look at it, but if the hon. Lady would come forward
with specific cases, that would make it easier.
-
(Redditch) (Con)
Between 2010 and 2017, the basic state pension rate rose by
£1,250. What will the Minister do to ensure that pensioners
in my constituency continue to be protected and looked
after by this Government?
-
My hon. Friend is right to say that the state pension has
been enhanced and increased; the new state pension has gone
up to £164-plus. There is fantastically good news on
auto-enrolment in her constituency, and I will write to her
with the specific details.
-
(Eltham) (Lab)
My constituent was called back early for a PIP assessment,
which made no reference to the fact that he has an
inoperable brain tumour, which has led to his having
intractable epilepsy and Parkinson’s disease. Can the
Minister explain why he was recalled for an assessment?
-
I am sure the whole House will appreciate that without
looking at the details of the hon. Gentleman’s constituent’s
case, it is impossible to do that. As I have explained, the
process is designed to treat people with compassion,
accurately looking at the medical evidence that it is
presented, alongside their assessment of their conditions.
-
(South Suffolk)
(Con)
My hon. Friend the pensions Minister is doing a lot of work
on auto-enrolment for the self-employed. Has he looked
specifically at the so-called worker category, in which a
person might do their self-employed work for one large firm
that could, with willing and regulatory help, roll them into
its employee scheme?
-
I would be delighted to take up that specific example and
will definitely take it forward. I remind my hon. Friend that
12,000 people have been auto-enrolled in his constituency.
-
(Coventry North
East) (Lab)
The latest quarterly figures show that in Coventry, 81% of
PIP, 76% of ESA, 83% of income support and 100% of
jobseeker’s allowance appeals heard by Her Majesty’s Courts
and Tribunals Service were decided in favour of the
appellant. Does the Minister accept that the high proportion
of successful appeals highlights the flawed nature of the
DWP’s decision-making processes?
-
It is really important to put all those numbers in context.
Let us be absolutely clear: we want to make sure that we make
the right decision the first time and we are working really
hard to make sure that that is the case. We have recently
recruited 150 presenting officers, who now work in the
courts, providing invaluable feedback so that we can improve
the situation.
-
(Ayr, Carrick and
Cumnock) (Con)
I recently had the privilege of attending a Disability
Confident event in Ayrshire. What more can the Government do
to encourage or incentivise employers to invest in disabled
young talent?
-
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for leading a Disability
Confident event. Disability Confident is growing from
strength to strength. The most recent numbers show that more
than 6,500 employers have signed up. Of the largest companies
in the country, more than a quarter of the workforce is
covered. Each year, we see more people with disabilities go
into work. We are utterly determined to close the disability
employment gap and get a million more people with
disabilities into work.
-
Several hon. Members rose—
-
Mr Speaker
Finally, I call Ms .
-
Ms (Wallasey) (Lab)
My constituent of working age suffered two strokes and has
now been diagnosed as suffering from vascular dementia. He
has been found to be fit for work, even though he has major
problems with his short-term memory. He will have to appeal
the decision and faces a wait of up to 30 weeks before he
gets any kind of hearing or has his benefit restored. How can
this possibly be a system that is working or acceptable?
-
I would of course be more than happy to meet the hon. Lady to
go through the specifics of that case.
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