Asked by Baroness Deech To ask Her Majesty’s Government what
steps they are taking to protect the rights of wheelchair users to
travel on buses. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State,
Department for Transport (Baroness Sugg) (Con) My Lords, the
way people travel should not be determined by their disability, and
it is vital that bus services...Request free trial
Asked by
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To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps they are taking
to protect the rights of wheelchair users to travel on
buses.
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The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for
Transport (Baroness Sugg) (Con)
My Lords, the way people travel should not be determined by
their disability, and it is vital that bus services meet
the needs of all people who wish to use them. Significant
progress has already been made on the physical
accessibility of vehicles, with 97% of buses now
incorporating a wheelchair space. But we must do more. We
are supporting mandatory disability awareness training for
bus drivers, improving on-board information, and have
announced our intention to develop a package of measures to
support access to the designated wheelchair space.
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(CB)
My Lords, it is six years since the courageous Mr Doug
Paulley was left off the bus and started legal action,
without any legal aid, over wheelchair access. It is 16
months since the Supreme Court judgment in his favour. It
is eight months since the department’s task force reported,
and now it wants a further consultation. Will the Minister
give a date for action? How will the priority of wheelchair
users be ensured if a buggy user refuses to move? How will
priority legislation be enforced, and how will the public
become aware? Has the Minister on her travels not noticed
that the purpose of wheelchair and elderly priority seats
on London buses and trains is widely ignored?
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My Lords, I have indeed noticed that, and I acknowledge
absolutely that there is frustration over the time it has
taken the Government to respond to the Supreme Court ruling
that was given in January last year. We know that
wheelchair users continue to face unacceptable barriers
when using bus services, and we are taking action to ensure
that they get access to the wheelchair space. In March, the
Government accepted in principle the expert recommendations
of a task and finish group we set up on improving access to
the wheelchair space, and we will bring forward a package
of measures later this year to address the issue. I
acknowledge that it can be difficult for drivers to force
someone to give up a space, and that is why we are speaking
to drivers, parents and other interested stakeholders on
how best to address this. One option we are considering is
to amend the conduct regulations, but we are also looking
at driver guidance and how best to raise awareness of the
behaviours expected from other passengers.
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(LD)
My Lords, I had the privilege of being with Doug Paulley in
the Supreme Court to hear that court’s judgment, which made
it absolutely plain that the easiest way to resolve this
problem was to amend the conduct regulations. The
Minister’s predecessor, the noble Lord, Lord Ahmad, said at
the Dispatch Box immediately after that judgment that the
department would look at bringing forward those regulation
changes. Sixteen months on, nothing has happened. To start
a consultation when the Supreme Court was so clear seems
ridiculous. When will the Government bring forward new
draft conduct regulations?
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My Lords, again I acknowledge why there is frustration on
this. As I said, amending legislation is certainly one of
the options we are considering. I am conscious that not
only wheelchair users rely on access to wheelchair space,
and we must make ensure that the approach works for all
passengers. We set up the task and finish group to look at
this issue and advise us on what measures to take; those
experts were clear that the solution lies in a combined
approach, including legislation, so as I said, we are
looking to amend guidance and influence passenger
behaviour. We are working on this and will have a package
of measures later this year, which we think will deliver
what we need.
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(Lab)
My Lords, as the noble Baroness, Lady Deech, will know, the
Oxford Tube bus service has an infallible and excellent
system for dealing with wheelchair users, and it operates
with complete efficiency. Why cannot other bus companies
emulate that service?
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My Lords, I am pleased to hear of the provision of the
Oxford Tube service. For many disabled people, the quality
of their interactions with coach and bus drivers will be as
important as physical accessibility. Since March, it has
been a mandatory requirement for drivers of local and
scheduled buses to complete disability awareness training,
and we are working with the industry and enforcement bodies
to ensure that that requirement is implemented effectively.
As I said, we are working on guidance for this training and
will certainly look at what the Oxford Tube is doing.
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(Con)
My Lords, although this important work is being carried
out, many disabled people rely on community transport
schemes. What measures are the Government taking to protect
those schemes from the draconian new EU regulations?
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I agree with my noble friend that community transport
operators provide vital services. We are interpreting the
exemptions to the EU regulations as widely as legally
permissible within the existing legal framework so that as
many community transport organisations and operators as
possible can continue to provide their important services.
There was a recent debate on this matter in the other
place, and my honourable friend the Roads Minister has
addressed this issue in detail. I will pass on a copy of
his letter to my noble friend and place a copy in the
Library.
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(Lab)
My Lords, the Minister said that the Government have been
working on this issue. For how long, how many staff are
working on it and how much time has been spent on it, or is
it simply a fig-leaf to cover total inaction?
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My Lords, I am afraid that I do not have the exact number
of members of staff who are working on this issue. As I
said, in March my honourable friend agreed in detail the
recommendations of the task and finish group. We are
working on this and will continue to do so, and, as I said,
we will come forward with a package of measures later this
year.
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(Con)
My Lords, I declare an interest in that my eldest daughter
had to use a wheelchair for over 20 years. Fortunately, her
multiple sclerosis has been treated and she does not use it
any more. When she worked with London Buses on wheelchair
access, she discovered that you have to be quite sure that
the vehicle conforms to a certain weight limit.
Manufacturers need to know what that limit is so that they
can be sure that their wheelchairs will not break the ramp.
If a wheelchair is too heavy, as some motorised ones are,
it can cause damage. When my daughter first used one, the
driver was very unwilling to take her on the bus, until the
noble Baroness, Lady Boothroyd, turned up next to her and
said, “Get the ramp out, man”, which he did.
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My Lords, I am just sorry that all disabled passengers who
travel by bus do not have the noble Baroness there to help
them out. The size of wheelchair spaces on buses and the
specification of the boarding ramps and lifts are based on
the dimensions of an internationally recognised reference
wheelchair. I recognise that many people use larger or
heavier wheelchairs, which might not easily be accommodated.
It would be difficult and complicated to amend the standard
so we do not have any current plans to review it, but we will
definitely ensure that the information is readily available.
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