Ministers from the Department for Exiting the European Union were
answering questions in the Commons. Subjects covered included...
Negotiations Space Industry Northern
Ireland/Republic of Ireland Border Non-UK EU Citizens
Fisheries Policy Customs Union Farming Policy
Internal UK Trade Topical Questions...Request free trial
Ministers from the Department for Exiting the European Union were
answering questions in the Commons. Subjects covered
included...
To see any of these in greater detail, either click on the link or
read below.
Negotiations
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1. What recent progress he has made on negotiating
the UK’s exit from the EU. [905107]
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4. What progress he has made on negotiating the
UK’s future relationship with the EU. [905114]
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6. What recent progress he has made on
negotiations on the UK leaving the
EU. [905117]
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7. What recent progress he has made on negotiating
the UK’s exit from the EU. [905118]
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10. What recent progress he has made on
negotiating the UK’s exit from the
EU. [905127]
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11. What progress he has made on negotiations to
agree the terms on which the UK will leave the
EU. [905128]
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Clearly, great minds think alike today, Mr Speaker.
We have made significant progress in negotiating our
exit by agreeing on the terms of a time-limited
implementation period and locking down entire chapters
on the financial settlement and citizens’ rights.
Negotiations are ongoing. My officials are in Brussels
this week, discussing a number of issues, including
issues in the agreement such as Euratom, data and
intellectual property rights and the future
partnership. They are discussing how we should progress
the future economic partnership and how we can progress
the negotiations swiftly and in parallel. Northern
Ireland—particularly human rights, state aid and, to
some extent, agriculture—is also being discussed.
Today, in Brussels my officials are discussing the
future of the security partnership.
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There is now a clear consensus in this Parliament that,
at the very least, the United Kingdom should enter into
a customs arrangement with the EU post Brexit, but
after another indecisive Brexit Cabinet Sub-Committee
meeting, the Government, after two years, have still
failed to reach an agreed position on the customs
issue. Every 42 days, the Government lose a Cabinet
Minister, and the Secretary of State is 6:1 third
favourite to be the next to go. Those are good odds, if
you ask me. If the eventual will of the Cabinet and the
Prime Minister is to seek a customs arrangement with
the EU, will the Secretary of State resign?
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I am not sure whether it is constitutional to discuss
my resignation, but I will say that I do not take it to
be imminent.
The simple truth is that this is a complex and
important issue, which will affect our country for
generations. It has a direct effect on the sensitive
issue of Northern Ireland and the peace process there,
which we are committed to protecting at all costs. It
is therefore no surprise that it will take some time to
nail down the policy.
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Conservative Members are confident that my right hon.
Friend will achieve the best possible outcome for this
country in the negotiations and will continue to serve
this country for a long time thereafter. Will he
confirm, however, that his task will not be made any
easier—indeed, it will be made considerably harder—by
some of the amendments to the European Union
(Withdrawal) Bill that have been passed in the other
place? Does he agree that they will need to be repealed
when they come back to this House and that the Lords
will press them at their peril?
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I thank my right hon. Friend for his forecast, or his
good wishes—one or the other—
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I have some much more pertinent things than that to
frame, Mr Speaker.
My right hon. Friend is absolutely right. The European
Union (Withdrawal) Bill is essential and is in the
national interest. Some of the amendments passed in the
upper House—and the upper House does a very important
job, as a reviewing House, in improving the quality of
legislation—could have the effect of undermining the
negotiation. That is a matter of critical national
interest, and we will have to deal with it accordingly.
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Does the Secretary of State agree with the finding of
the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee that there is
currently no technological solution to the problem of
the Irish border?
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We have said categorically that there will be no
physical infrastructure or related checks and controls
at the border between Northern Ireland and the
Republic. We have set out clear commitments in relation
to the border and have put forward two potential
customs models, to which the hon. Member for Paisley
and Renfrewshire North (Gavin Newlands) alluded.
I have always said that the best solution to the
Northern Ireland border issue will be reached through
the deep and special partnership between the United
Kingdom and the European Union, recognising the unique
circumstances of Northern Ireland. As the European
Commission has itself acknowledged, solutions to the
border issue cannot be based on precedent.
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Given the fankle that the Secretary of State and the
Government have got themselves into in the other place,
have not the EU negotiations now descended into a game
show parody? The question is, is it “Deal or No Deal”,
or has the whole situation just become a bit
“Pointless”?
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The hon. Lady clearly memorised her question before she
heard my answer. A huge amount of incredibly important
work is under way, most notably on Northern Ireland. I
would not reduce that to a parody.
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The Secretary of State will be aware that universities
in the UK punch well above their weight in terms of
research funding, not least the universities of Dundee
and St Andrews. Given that universities across Europe
are planning for the next framework programme, what
plans has he to ensure that those in the UK will have
access to the same levels of funding on 1 January 2021?
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The Under-Secretary of State for Exiting the European
Union, my hon. Friend the Member for Worcester (Mr
Walker), has visited Dundee and is very much across
that issue. We have given undertakings in relation to
guaranteeing the funding of the universities, but if
the hon. Gentleman is interested, he can certainly
discuss this with me explicitly, so that we can deal
directly with the issue of the universities in his
constituency.
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With what level of confidence does the Secretary of
State estimate the probability of our leaving the
customs union on 31 December 2020?
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Let me make a serious point here. The issue of leaving
the customs union plays directly to the issue of how we
manage our future export and trade arrangements. Almost
60% of our exports are now going to the rest of the
world. That is not surprising because both the
International Monetary Fund and the European Commission
itself have said that the vast majority of growth in
world trade will come from outside the European Union.
It is our explicit aim to make the most of that, and
that means we have to leave the customs union.
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Will the Secretary of State set out for the House the
characteristics of the customs partnership that he is
discussing with his right hon. Friends, and given that
according to reports that is the Prime Minister’s
preferred way forward, what are the reasons for holding
back on it?
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There are two models. The streamline model essentially
uses conventional techniques used around the rest of
the world, including electronic pre-notification, the
use of authorised economic operators and a whole series
of other technical mechanisms. The alternative
proposal—the new customs partnership—is a brand-new
idea; it has never been tested anywhere in the world
and involves, essentially, charging the common external
tariff when goods enter the country and then rebating
that. Both approaches have merits and virtues, and both
have some drawbacks, and that is why we are taking our
time over this discussion.
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Given that membership of the European Union necessarily
means being in the single market and the customs union
under the jurisdiction of the European Court of
Justice, does my right hon. Friend agree that, to keep
faith with the British people, this Parliament has a
positive duty to ensure that upon withdrawal we cease
to be subject to all those arrangements?
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My right hon. Friend is correct: what we are doing,
after all, is carrying out the judgment of the
referendum, which was to take back control of borders,
laws and money. During the referendum, both sides made
it very plain that real removal from the EU means real
removal from the customs union and the single market.
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They might be over-represented in the Secretary of
State’s ministerial team, but supporters of the
European Research Group constitute less than 10% of the
membership of this House. Why are the Government
putting their red lines before the interests of the
country?
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I wish the hon. Gentleman a happy May Day this week,
but he is basically putting—how can I express this in
parliamentary language?—a non-fact in front of the
House. The case is very simple: the Government are
deciding on the future customs arrangements on the
basis of the best interests of the United Kingdom.
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I am grateful for the right hon. Gentleman’s May Day
wishes, and I am sure that he will be celebrating as
well. The Engineering Employers Federation says that
being outside a customs union
“would condemn the manufacturing sector to a painful
and costly Brexit.”
Does he really think that is a price worth paying to
keep the ERG happy?
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I am not going to take lectures from a party that has
had 11 different positions on this so far and whose
own—[Interruption.] I am speaking through the Speaker,
thank you very much. And a party whose own policy has
been roundly criticised in singularly unparliamentary
language by its own shadow Secretary of State for
International Trade, the hon. Member for Brent North
(Barry Gardiner).
Space Industry
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2. What recent assessment he has made of the
effect of leaving the EU on the UK space
industry. [905108]
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The UK space industry is a global success story,
leveraging our expertise and talent to deliver
ground-breaking products and services, and we want a UK
space industry that captures 10% of the global market
by 2030, creating 100,000 new jobs—astronomical levels!
Ministers from across the Government have carried out
extensive engagement on EU exit, and this has included
engagement with the space sector. We have been clear in
our desire to continue our involvement in EU space
programmes, including Galileo, provided that the UK and
UK companies can continue to participate on a fair and
open basis.
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I thank the Minister for her answer. Whatever the
future holds for us in the UK, we are going to have to
play to all our strengths, intellectually and
economically. She will be aware that Her Majesty’s
Government are currently considering the northern part
of Sutherland in my constituency as a possible space
launch site. Jobs do not exactly grow on the trees in
that part of the world, and I would warmly encourage
the Government to go down the route of developing the
site there. It would mean a great deal to me, to my
constituents and to an area that needs the help.
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The hon. Gentleman raises a crucial point relating to
the development of our domestic space strategy, and
Scotland has a strong heritage in the sector. For
example, Glasgow has built more satellites in the past
two years compared with other European cities, and we
also have the Prestwick aerospace park, Strathclyde
University and many companies breaking new frontiers.
We want the UK to reach space from our own shores, and
we recently passed the Space Industry Act 2018, which
is the first key step towards licensing the first
missions from the UK into space. Brexit will not pose a
barrier to our journey into space.
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The ancients named the planets after their gods. In
affirming that the United Kingdom will continue to lead
geo-galactic enterprise and innovation across the
continent, will the Minister explain how, goddess-like,
she changed her name and tell us what role she intends
to play in promoting the United Kingdom in this place,
in the Government, on earth and across the cosmos?
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My right hon. Friend sets the bar very high. I thank
him for his question, for his stellar contributions and
his work with the space sector, and particularly for
his work on the Space Industry Act, which, as I said,
has paved the way for our domestic policy. His
reference to my goddess-like status is slightly
exaggerated, but I would expect nothing less of him.
Even in this space age, it takes a brave woman to
follow tradition and change her name following
marriage. He is right to suggest that the UK’s historic
strength in the space sector will be secured as we
leave the European Union and develop our own new
partnership with our allies across the channel. It is
in that spirit, boldly going where no woman has gone
before, that I can tell the House from the Dispatch Box
that, as of today, I am pleased to be known as
.
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We are delighted for the hon. Lady, and we congratulate
her on that. I would also say that, in the 25 years
that I have known the right hon. Member for South
Holland and The Deepings (Mr Hayes), he has always
inhabited his own galaxy and been the most shining star
in it.
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I should like to add my congratulations to the
Minister. With regard to the Galileo programme, it is
reported that the procurement process will freeze out
UK participation in the programme. I know that the
Science Minister met representatives of the European
Space Agency on Monday. Will the Minister provide an
update on efforts to freeze the procurement and sort
out this mess, because 400 jobs in this country are
dependent on getting it sorted out?
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I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his question. The
Government have been clear that there is mutual benefit
in the UK’s involvement in Galileo, and we are working
hard with our European partners to deliver this
outcome. However, as the Secretary of State for
Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy made clear in
his letter to Ministers in the other 27 EU member
states on 19 April, that involvement must be on terms
that the UK considers acceptable, including being fair
and open to the UK and UK industry. That is why the
Prime Minister has announced that she will task
engineering and space experts in the UK to develop
options for a British global navigation satellite
system that would safeguard our position in terms of
navigation and timing information.
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Successful space businesses such as Airbus provide
thousands of jobs in the UK, and their success has been
built on an open, free supply-chain system with the EU.
How will the Minister obtain the agreement of EU
partners for the continuation of that system?
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There has been considerable engagement with Airbus. The
Under-Secretary of State for Exiting the European
Union, my hon. Friend the Member for Worcester (Mr
Walker), has met representatives from Airbus, and I
have visited its site in Portsmouth. We want full
access to Galileo, including the crucial secure
elements that will help to guide British missiles
should they be needed to keep us all safe. This is a
commercial matter for Airbus, so it would be
inappropriate for me to comment, but I can say that the
Government have been in close contact and will continue
to work with the entire UK space sector to do all that
we can to ensure that the UK is able to contribute
fully to the Galileo programme.
Northern Ireland/Republic of Ireland Border
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3. What recent progress he has made on securing an
agreement with his EU counterparts on border
arrangements between Northern Ireland and the Republic
of Ireland after the UK leaves the
EU. [905110]
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Officials are undertaking an intensive work programme
with the European Commission and the Republic of
Ireland to negotiate in detail all the issues and
scenarios set out in the joint report at the March
Council. As the Government made clear in the joint
report published in December, we are absolutely
committed to avoiding a hard border between Northern
Ireland and Ireland, including any related checks and
controls, as the UK leaves the EU.
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At the previous DExEU questions, my hon. Friend the
Member for Darlington (Jenny Chapman) and I generously
invited the Secretary of State to visit Northern
Ireland. It was a bitter blow that he refused our
offer, but we were pleased that he did manage to visit.
Will he or the Minister tell us what people on the
border thought about his proposed solution?
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As the hon. Lady acknowledged, the Secretary of State
did indeed visit Northern Ireland last week, as did the
Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and Minister. I
have also visited on several occasions, including
visiting the border and speaking to cross-border
businesses. Everyone understands the importance of
having frictionless movement of people and goods across
that border. That is the aspiration of both the UK and
the Republic of Ireland, and it is something that we
will continue to pursue through the talks.
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Monsieur Barnier was at the border last week, and I am
afraid that his diplomatic skills were found wanting
yet again. Does the Minister agree that Monsieur
Barnier should, in the intensive discussions that he is
having, take some time to look at the massive hole that
will be left in the EU budget after we leave and
perhaps turn his mind to the political problems that
there will be in Hungary, France, Germany, Poland and
elsewhere, with the far right turning away from Europe,
after he is done with ours?
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The hon. Gentleman makes a powerful point. We need to
ensure that we progress the negotiations in the
interests of the United Kingdom and have a strong,
friendly partnership with the EU after we leave. That
should be our focus, and issues relating to the Irish
border are a key part of that engagement.
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It is now over 15 months since the Prime Minister
promised that the Government would as a priority bring
forward a practical solution to the question of the
Irish border. Will the Minister enlighten us on when we
might get that practical solution to consider?
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We have put forward several proposals, which we are
still in the process of discussing with the Commission.
It is vital that we have agreed on a number of key
areas in the joint report, such as the common travel
area, the single electricity market and funding in
Ireland, and it is right that we get the talks right so
that the right language is written into law at the end
of the process for both sides to follow.
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The Minister and his colleagues are good at telling us
what the Irish border will not be, but we are still no
closer to having any idea about what it will be. This
question could easily have been linked to the previous
one, because the Government’s proposed solution still
belongs in the realms of science fiction. If the
Minister cannot tell us when we will get to see the
practical solution that was promised as a priority,
will he at least give us an end date—an absolute
guarantee—by which, as a matter of confidence, the
Government will have brought forward something that is
practical or, at the very least, credible?
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As I said, the talks are continuing, and we are seeking
to reach agreement on the full text of the withdrawal
agreement by October this year, as has been set out
many times by both the Commission and the UK
Government.
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Has any expenditure been made or contracts entered into
by any Department in relation to any equipment that
might constitute monitoring at the border between
Ireland and Northern Ireland?
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We have been absolutely clear about there being no
infrastructure at the border, so I am pretty certain
that the answer to the right hon. Gentleman’s question
is no.
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Sixty Conservative MPs are attempting to determine the
outcome of this decision. They are attempting to bully
the Prime Minister into their preferred option. Will
the Minister, who I know approaches this issue with
particular care, take this opportunity to explain to
his colleagues why their preferred option, the
so-called “max fac” or maximum facilitation option, is
not suitable?
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I simply do not recognise the hon. Lady’s
characterisation of the discussion. The reality is that
we have put forward two options in the customs paper,
both of which are designed to facilitate the most
frictionless border between Northern Ireland and the
Republic. The max fac option, combined with issues such
as the local trade exemption, could provide a solution
in that respect. As the Secretary of State has said,
both options are still under consideration.
Non-UK EU Citizens
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5. What progress has been made during negotiations
on agreeing new arrangements for the rights of non-UK
EU citizens after the UK leaves the
EU. [905115]
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As hon. Members will be aware, we have reached a
reciprocal agreement with the EU that safeguards the
rights of EU citizens in the UK and the rights of UK
nationals in the EU. This agreement, highlighted green
in the withdrawal agreement, means that citizens who
are resident before the end of the implementation
period will be able to continue living their lives
broadly as they do now. The Government are now focusing
on the successful domestic implementation of this
agreement, and we are seeking further details on the
steps that member states are taking to protect the
status of UK nationals resident in the EU.
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Following yesterday’s debate about the Windrush
generation and the Prime Minister’s decision to hide
the whole business behind a cloak of secrecy, what
plans does the Minister have to talk to the Home
Secretary to ensure that the process to deal with EU
nationals will be open and transparent, and to ensure
that their right to remain is fully protected, so they
do not fear removal at some unknown date in the future?
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Like the new Home Secretary’s parents, my parents came
to this country in the 1960s as immigrants from
Commonwealth countries, and they too could have been
caught up in the Windrush episode. I would not be
standing here as a proud Member of the Conservative
party and of this Government if I had any doubt
whatsoever about the commitment of the Prime Minister
and the Government to resolving this issue quickly and
ensuring it is not repeated.
It is with that confidence that we are learning and
implementing the settlement scheme for EU citizens,
which will be efficient, simple, user friendly and
reliable, to ensure that the rights of EU citizens post
Brexit are safeguarded rigorously and robustly.
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I admire the Minister’s confidence, but I wonder
whether she has had conversations with her colleagues
in the Home Office, which has now declared an amnesty
on Commonwealth citizens and is having to implement a
helpline and support for the Windrush generation. That
will extend to others, and the Home Office is also
having to introduce, by November, the new fast-route EU
citizens settlement programme. Does she seriously
believe that, practically, the Home Office and the
Government have the resources to deal with this, and
can she reassure my constituents?
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The UK has been clear that EU citizens in the UK will
be able to enforce their rights directly in UK courts,
and that will be fully incorporated into UK law in the
withdrawal agreement. We have also agreed there will be
an independent monitoring authority to oversee the
implementation and application of citizens’ rights and
of that agreement in the UK. The authority will be able
to receive complaints from EU citizens and their family
members, and it will be able to conduct inquiries.
Those robust mechanisms, rights and frameworks will be
given legal status in the withdrawal agreement and in
the implementation Bill.
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My constituent is currently working on a five-year
project in France, and his Bulgarian wife is staying
with him. What is her status, post Brexit, to return to
stay in the UK with her husband and their two children?
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As an EU national married to a UK citizen, if she has
been here for the requisite number of years before the
implementation period, her rights will be broadly the
same as they are now. We want to ensure that she will
have the same abilities and rights as she is able to
enjoy today.
Fisheries Policy
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8. What discussions he has had with the Secretary
of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs on
negotiations on fisheries policy for when the UK leaves
the EU. [905123]
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We continue to have regular conversations with
ministerial colleagues across Government on all aspects
of exiting the EU, including on fisheries policy. The
Government have been absolutely clear that when we
leave the EU, and at the end of the implementation
period, we will be an independent coastal state,
managing our fisheries and controlling access to our
own waters.
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I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his response. He
will have seen the joint statement released by the
Scottish Fishermen’s Federation and the National
Federation of Fishermen’s Organisations earlier this
week. Will he join me in backing the clear, clean and
achievable goals that the UK-wide fishing industry is
united behind?
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I can tell my hon. Friend that I have read that
statement with care and that we do share its ambitions.
Ministers fully understand and recognise that fishing
is of totemic importance to not just the fishing
community but the UK as a whole—this goes way beyond
its contribution to GDP. We take that knowledge forward
as we go into these negotiations, working to deliver
that status as an independent coastal state, with all
that that entails.
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In order to demonstrate that Scottish fisherman will
not be treated as expendable once again, have the
Minister’s discussions focused on control of Scotland’s
waters being given wholly to Scotland?
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As we go forward, we will continue to work with the
devolved Governments to ensure that there is a
settlement that works for the whole of the United
Kingdom.
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Notwithstanding what the Minister has just said and his
colleagues have repeated many times, there are
lingering doubts among the fishing community in my
constituency and in neighbouring Grimsby. Can he give
an absolute assurance that no further concessions will
be made?
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My hon. Friend and my hon. Friend the Member for Banff
and Buchan (David Duguid) are both fierce champions of
the fishing cause, and I am sure that they will
continue to hold us to account. I say to them that the
Government fully understand and recognise the totemic
importance of fishing. We will take that understanding
forward to negotiations, as we work to become an
independent coastal state. I very much look forward to
my colleagues on this side of the House perhaps one day
standing here as fisheries Ministers, operating our own
independent fishing policy.
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I know my hon. Friend the Minister will recognise that
the common fisheries policy has been a disaster for the
south-west fishing industry over the past 45 years—it
has declined to the point where even if quotas were
repatriated, we probably could not actually use them.
Will he reassure me that in his discussions with his
colleagues he is making sure that we will rebuild the
industry, providing the support to do so, to ensure
that when powers are repatriated we can actually take
advantage of them?
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We will certainly work to take advantage of new powers
as they are repatriated. After we have left the common
fisheries policy, its two main pillars—mutual access to
waters and the EU allocation of quota—will fall away.
Once we have taken back control, I look forward to the
regrowth of our own fishing industry, particularly as I
originally hail from Cornwall.
Customs Union
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9. What assessment he has made of the effect of
the UK remaining in the customs union on its ability to
negotiate new free trade agreements throughout the
world after the UK leaves the EU. [905126]
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We have been clear that we are leaving the EU’s customs
union and single market in March 2019. Only by doing so
will we be able to set out own tariffs on goods,
deliver our own trade policy with the rest of the world
and open markets for UK businesses. All of these are
golden opportunities for our nation that will enable
more growth, prosperity and jobs—I am sure my hon.
Friend will be looking forward to this opportunity.
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I am delighted I have got the services of the dynamic
new young Minister. I am very grateful to her for
reinforcing the point that if we stay in the customs
union, that will mean that Brussels retains control of
our trade policy. Will she tell the House and explain
to me why, given that we have the sixth largest economy
in the world and English is the language of
international trade, some people are so nervous about
the UK having its own trade policy?
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My hon. Friend makes an excellent point. We have so
many strengths in our country, which make us well
placed for our future outside the EU and its customs
union. Some 90% of future global growth will come from
outside the EU. We had with record high foreign direct
investment last year and exports up by 10%, with
unemployment down, inflation down and growth up—all of
this is despite Brexit.
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Does the Minister agree with this from the Institute
for Fiscal Studies:
“Get a sense of scale, throw in some simple arithmetic
and sprinkle a basic understanding of trade and it is
obvious that the economic costs of leaving the customs
union must outweigh the benefits”?
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Will the excellent Minister explain something to me?
Say we have our own trade policy with Nigeria, or
another developing country, and its food is coming into
this country with no tariff. If that country is
suddenly told that it has to pay a tariff of 30%, 40%
or 50% because that is the EU external policy, but that
it might get that back at some time in future, is this
new customs partnership a good idea?
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The Government set out the two options in our policy
papers last summer, and one of those options will be
adopted in due course. Free trade has brought
unprecedented prosperity to some of the poorest
countries in the world. My hon. Friend referred to
developing countries: free trade has lifted more than 1
billion people out of poverty by increasing choice and
lowering prices for consumers. It will enable us to
forge trade agreements with some of the poorer
countries in the world, thereby incentivising them to
capitalise and industrialise, and to be sustainable and
not dependent on aid. This is a great opportunity.
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Is the reality not that trade deals with, for instance,
the US and Australia would require concessions on
regulatory standards that would create impenetrable
trade barriers with Europe? When it comes to trade
policy, surely one bird in the hand is better than two
in the bush.
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By leaving the single market, we will regain control of
our laws and regulatory regimes, which will enable
us—Parliament and the Government—to set the terms on
which we negotiate any future trade deals with other
countries. Let us be clear: we have a trade surplus
with countries outside the EU. There is excessive and
impressive demand for British goods out there. We need
to open our markets so that our businesses can expand
their sales and capitalise on this opportunity.
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It is one thing to negotiate free trade agreements—I
very much support that ambition—but it is a completely
different thing to benefit from them. To do that, we
need a much stronger trade network around the world,
particularly throughout Africa, where that network is
potentially declining. Will my hon. Friend speak to the
Chancellor and the Secretary of State for International
Trade to ensure that our international trade network is
enhanced and not diminished?
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My hon. Friend raises an important point. All those who
work at the Department for International Trade are
highly focused on how we can forge better links with
new markets and new partners through our trade envoys
and working groups. This heralds a new beginning and
new opportunities for our country; I cannot understand
why the Opposition will not welcome it.
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Research into the Government’s own EU exit analysis was
carried out last month by the House of Commons Library,
and it suggests that leaving the customs union and
ruling out a new comprehensive EU-UK customs union will
create new customs barriers that could cost the economy
billions over the next 15 years. Does the Minister
accept that assessment? If not, what does the
Department now put the cost at?
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That analysis does not represent Government policy—it
does not assess the Government’s preferred objectives.
We are working towards a free trade agreement with the
EU that will be as frictionless as possible, so that
our businesses can continue to trade with and sell
their goods into the EU, and vice versa. That is going
to be good for the economy, good for the hon.
Gentleman’s constituents and good for the country.
Farming Policy
-
12. What discussions he has had with the Secretary
of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs on
negotiations on farming policy for when the UK leaves
the EU. [905130]
-
We continue to work closely with Ministers and
officials from all Departments, including DEFRA, to
further our preparations for our exit from and new
partnership with the EU. The Secretary of State
continues to have regular conversations with his
Cabinet colleagues on all aspects of exiting the EU,
including agriculture. All Ministers are clear that
leaving the EU means leaving the common agricultural
policy and making our own decisions for our own
farmers’ benefit, for the first time in around half a
century.
-
I am grateful to the Minister for that answer. I
regularly meet farmers in Corby and east
Northamptonshire who are excited about the
opportunities ahead to redefine and reshape our
agricultural policy. Can the Minister confirm that they
will be directly involved in that process?
-
Yes, I can. If we are to redesign our country’s
agricultural policy, it is of course right that we seek
input from our farmers. Our consultation paper, which
can be found on the Government’s website, seeks views
on plans for a more dynamic and self-reliant
agriculture industry, as we continue to compete on the
world stage, supplying products of the highest
standards to the domestic market and increasing
exports. I strongly encourage not only farmers but
everyone who cares about the food that we eat to
contribute before the consultation closes next Tuesday.
-
The food and farming industry is already facing
challenges in recruiting the skills and labour needed
to keep that sector going. What will the Government do
to ensure that those skills are there and that the
labour force is there through and beyond Brexit?
-
We are taking back control of our borders, but we
should always welcome people who come here to
contribute to our economy. We have asked the
independent Migration Advisory Committee to look
carefully at how we can reach this goal. Its report is
due in September and it would be wrong to pre-empt it.
-
When will we see a seasonal agricultural workers scheme
for UK farmers to ensure that our crops do not rot in
the ground?
-
At the moment, farmers have access to European economic
area migrants. I look forward to the Migration Advisory
Committee’s report. The Home Office is of course
perfectly capable of instituting a seasonal workers
scheme, should one be necessary, in due course.
Internal UK Trade
-
13. What steps his Department is taking during
negotiations on the UK leaving the EU to maintain the
integrity of the UK. [905131]
-
In December, the joint report of the UK and the EU
reached a balanced set of commitments that reiterate
both our commitment to avoiding a hard border and our
clear position on preserving the constitutional and
economic integrity of the United Kingdom. Internal
trade between Northern Ireland and Great Britain is of
critical importance to Northern Ireland’s economy. In
2015, goods sold from Northern Ireland to the rest of
the UK stood at £10.7 billion.
-
It is essential to the integrity of the United Kingdom
that there are no barriers to internal UK trade,
including between Northern Ireland and our biggest
market, Great Britain. Can the Minister confirm that,
for this Government, this is an absolute red line in
all of the negotiations?
-
I agree with the hon. Lady: we have absolutely set out
that we will not accept any internal barriers within
the internal market of the United Kingdom. It is
important, in that respect, that the UK Government have
been able to reach a deal with the Welsh Government to
work together to make sure that we are able to
implement frameworks. I welcome the fact that that deal
is open to the Scottish Government and to a restored
Executive in Northern Ireland.
-
Does not the integrity of the UK depend on the Good
Friday agreement and the Good Friday agreement on the
consent of the people on both sides of the border, both
of whom voted to remain in the European Union? That
consent, therefore, is dependent on an open border, and
that open border can be maintained only by our
continuing membership of the customs union. Is not that
the irresistible logic of the position?
-
No, it is not, and the hon. Gentleman’s former party
leader has pointed out that the customs union is not
the determinant of addressing the border. We are very
clear in our commitments, both to the Good Friday
agreement and to there being no hard border on the
island of Ireland, and we are also very clear in our
commitment to the principle of consent, to which he
referred. That principle of consent must be respected
by both sides in this negotiation.
-
-
-
Remarkable self-denying ordinance on which I
congratulate the hon. Lady, but we may hear from her at
a later point in our proceedings.
Topical Questions
-
T1. If he will make a statement on his departmental
responsibilities. [905132]
-
Since the last departmental questions, the Government
have been making progress towards our aim of securing a
deep and special partnership with the European Union. Our
aims and objectives for this agreement our clear:
respecting the referendum and the need to keep control of
our borders, money and laws; ensuring that our
relationship endures and does not need to be constantly
revisited; protecting jobs and security; demonstrating
our values and the kind of country that we want to be;
and strengthening the union of nations and the people who
make up the United Kingdom.
-
The joint report in December talked about a mapping
exercise with regard to cross-border co-operation. I
asked the Prime Minister, and I have written to her, to
understand what this mapping exercise demonstrated. I
have had a letter this week from Minister Baker telling
me that I cannot have the list of those 140 areas in the
mapping exercise. Mr Speaker, what do I, as a Member of
this Parliament, have to do to understand what those 140
areas are? I could go to the EU, I could go to the Irish
Government, and I could perhaps even stand on the border
and conduct my own survey. It is absolutely unacceptable
for me as a Member of Parliament to receive this letter.
-
The hon. Lady should have kept up with some of the events
that have been happening over the past week or two. The
Chairman of the Brexit Committee wrote to me and
asked—and indeed asked me again when I appeared in front
of the Committee—whether the Committee could have that
list and the support for it. We have said, yes, as soon
as it is complete, as soon as we have cleared the release
of it with the European Union—which has, by the way,
turned down freedom of information requests on the
subject. That list will be available as soon as it is
complete.
-
T3. As this country will be an independent coastal
state managing and controlling access to our own waters
with effect from 1 January 2021, is the Minister able to
provide an assurance that such access for EU fishing
vessels will not be part of the Brexit
negotiations? [905134]
-
My hon. Friend will have heard my earlier answer. We are
clear that future negotiations over trade must be
separate from negotiations over access to waters. There
would be no precedent to link the two, and we will
continue to take this position in our negotiations on the
economic partnership with the EU. The joint statement
from the SFF and NFFO that was mentioned earlier made the
normal position clear—that total allowable catches, quota
shares and access arrangements should ordinarily be
agreed through annual bilateral agreements.
-
When I was reading the Sunday newspapers over the
weekend, I was not entirely sure that we would see the
Secretary of State in his place today. This morning he
says that his resignation is not imminent—I am not sure
what message he is sending to his colleagues—but can I
assume that his presence signals that he thinks that he
won the argument with the Prime Minister yesterday and
that a customs partnership with the EU has now been taken
off the table?
-
My first advice to the right hon. and learned Gentleman
is not to believe everything he reads in the papers—even
about himself, let alone about me. Secondly, I made it
clear earlier that the Government are spending some time,
rightly, on ensuring that we get absolutely the best
outcome that will preserve the United Kingdom without
creating internal borders, and that will deliver the best
outcome in retaining the trade that we have with the
European Union and opening up opportunities with the rest
of the world. That is why we are taking time to get this
right.
-
Let me take that discussion to Northern Ireland. In
December the Prime Minister made a solemn promise that
there would be no hard border in Northern Ireland. That
was spelled out as no infrastructure, no checks and no
controls, and I know that the Secretary of State and his
team take that seriously. If, on serious and sober
analysis, the only conclusion is that delivering on that
solemn promise requires the UK to be in a customs union
with the EU, does the Secretary of State agree that that
would therefore be the only position for any responsible
Government to take?
-
The Under-Secretary of State for Exiting the European
Union, my hon. Friend the Member for Worcester (Mr
Walker), gave Labour Members some guidance on that
earlier when he cited their former leader, who has taken
a lot of interest in this issue, bearing in mind that he
oversaw the last part of the peace process and takes it
very seriously. In March this year, he said of the
customs union:
“the truth is that doesn’t really resolve your problems.
By the way, it doesn’t really resolve your problems in
Northern Ireland, either.”
David , who was made Nobel
laureate for his part in the peace process, also said
that in pretty stark terms.
-
T7. As the Minister will know, one of the
opportunities of leaving the EU is the chance to explore
potential UK membership of the Trans-Pacific partnership.
Can my hon. Friend confirm that the exit deal that the
Government are seeking to negotiate with the UK will
allow that? [905140]
-
As we design our independent trade policy, we have the
chance to explore many options all around the world.
Asia-Pacific is a region of great economic importance for
the UK, and the Department for International Trade is
closely following the progress of the comprehensive and
progressive Trans-Pacific partnership.
-
T2. The United Kingdom will have no role in
approving new drugs through the European Medicines Agency
during the transition period. Will the Minister confirm
that that will have no impact on regulatory standards or
patients’ access to vital medicines?[905133]
-
I do not agree with the hon. Gentleman’s first statement.
We have negotiated to ensure that we will be able to
continue to work with agencies including the EMA during
the implementation period. The EU has included specific
language about being able to call on UK expertise, so we
intend to continue co-ordination. As the Prime Minister
has also set out, we are seeking, as part of our future
partnership, a strong relationship with the EMA beyond
our exit from the EU.
-
Will my right hon. Friend confirm that when the so-called
WAIB—withdrawal agreement and implementation Bill—becomes
law, we will be committing ourselves to a financial
settlement that will be binding in international law?
Does he therefore agree that we should seek to obtain as
much detail as possible in the political declaration
while we still have that leverage?
-
Of course, what will be binding in international law is
what is written into the withdrawal agreement, and I
would therefore expect Parliament to have views on what
conditions should be in it.
-
T4. As we have heard, 60 Tory MPs have delivered an
ultimatum to the Prime Minister threatening to bring down
the Government—although I do not think the Government
need any assistance in that regard at the moment—if they
continue to seek a customs partnership with the EU
countries. When did the Secretary of State first become
aware of that document? [905135]
-
I am not aware of the document to which the hon.
Gentleman refers.
-
I wonder whether the Secretary of State has ever
reflected on the fact that if had kept his promise
of staying in office, implementing the views of the
British people and triggering article 50 immediately
after the referendum, we would nearly be coming out of
the EU now, and I would probably be arranging having a
statue of in my constituency.
Does the Secretary of State get the feeling that the
public are fed up with how long this process is taking
and wish we could just get on with it a bit quicker?
-
I have been asked today to give careers advice to myself
and now to past Prime Ministers, from which I will demur.
Had we triggered article 50 immediately after the
referendum, we would have had to absorb 40 years of
European Union law into British law almost in a
geological nanosecond—a very, very short time. It would
not have been easy to do. Although my hon. Friend is
right about the departure date, it might have been a lot
more uncomfortable than it is going to be.
-
T5. Currently, less than 1% of our non-EU exports
and imports are manually checked. That means that over
99% are processed with technological and electronic
solutions. Does the Secretary of State agree that this is
the way forward post Brexit, despite the cynicism of
some, including about the Irish border? [905136]
-
The hon. Lady makes a very important point. It is
important that we continue to look at all the investment
in technology that we can make to ensure that our trade
with the wider world is as frictionless as possible, and
we need to look at these solutions with regard to the
deal between the UK and the EU as well.
-
The amendments passed in the other place on Monday night
were those of a wrecking Chamber and not a revising
Chamber, were they not?
-
No; the House of Lords is a revising Chamber and it does
a very important job that I have, in my past, depended on
from time to time. I agree, however, that some of the
proposals—for example, to put timetables into the
negotiating arrangements, at which point control is taken
away from the Government—would be a gift to the
negotiators on the other side.
-
T6. The3million is an organisation representing EU
nationals living in the UK. Last month it submitted 128
questions to the Home Office concerning the UK
Government’s proposals for settled status. I realise that
things are pretty chaotic at the Home Office at the
moment, but what discussions has the Minister’s
Department had about responding to the very real concerns
of the 3 million EU nationals living in the United
Kingdom? [905137]
-
The hon. and learned Lady raises an important point.
There has been extensive consultation, dialogue and
discussion between Ministers at the Department for
Exiting the EU and diaspora groups. I met members of the
Romanian diaspora at the Romanian embassy, and the
Under-Secretary, my hon. Friend the Member for Worcester
(Mr Walker), has recently met members of the French
diaspora. We have this engagement, and it is important.
People can rest assured that the position of EU citizens
will be safeguarded through the legislation due to come
through Parliament in the autumn.
-
I declare an interest as a trustee of the Liverpool
School of Tropical Medicine. Post-doctoral research
fellows are a vital part of this country’s research base,
and they come from all over the world, including from the
EU. What discussions are my right hon. and hon. Friends
having with the Home Office to ensure that our future
immigration policy is based not on salaries—post-docs
often receive pretty miserly salaries compared with their
qualifications—but on the skills that we really need in
this country?
-
I regularly attend the higher education and science
working group chaired by my hon. Friend the Minister for
Universities, Science, Research and Innovation, where we
discuss these issues, and we have been feeding into the
work being done by the Migration Advisory Committee and
the Home Office on that front. The Prime Minister made
clear that we will want to continue to attract key talent
from around the world, and Britain will want to continue
to be a scientific superpower in the years to come. It is
essential that we get our policies right on this.
-
The Government’s own analysis shows that if we leave the
customs union, unemployment in the north-east will go up
to 200,000, so why did the Secretary of State argue
against a customs partnership yesterday afternoon and
what is he going to say to the 160,000 people who lose
their jobs?
-
I have two points in response to that. First, the hon.
Lady is presuming what my arguments were yesterday at the
Cabinet Committee. As far as I am aware, the minutes are
not published. Secondly, what she refers to is not
Government policy or indeed Government estimates.
-
Jaguar Land Rover in my constituency employs 9,000
people. Will the Minister assure me that securing the
supply chain will be at the centre of our post-Brexit
trading relationship with the EU and beyond?
-
Of course I can give my hon. Friend that assurance. We
are seeking a deep and special partnership with the
European Union, including trade that moves with the least
possible friction. I look forward to Jaguar Land Rover’s
future success.
-
To follow on from the previous question, the thousands of
families in my constituency whose income and prosperity
rely on the Ford engine plant are also deeply alarmed
about the refusal to remain in the customs union. A large
number of parts come in from Europe to create the engines
built in Bridgend, which are then exported to Europe. How
does the Minister envisage those supply chain needs and
Ford’s just-in-time policy being met?
-
Both sides have agreed that we wish to have tariff-free
access to each other’s markets. The hon. Member for
Belfast South (Emma Little Pengelly) referred to the tiny
proportion of our imports that need to be physically
checked. With a degree of mutual recognition, which has
been outlined by the Prime Minister, these things can be
delivered through the terms of our future economic
partnership, and I am confident that it is in both sides’
interest to ensure that supply chains can continue
uninterrupted.
-
Businesses in my constituency tell me that they need the
preferential trade rates with 88% of countries in the
rest of the world that they currently enjoy as part of
the EU. How do the Government propose to equal or exceed
those preferential rates before our businesses lose
contracts to EU competitors?
-
The EU currently has many international agreements with
third countries, and it is the policy, agreed in the
withdrawal agreement, that we will adopt a continuity
approach, so that all those international agreements to
which we are party by virtue of our membership of the EU
will continue to apply after we leave the EU.
-
In Corby and East Northamptonshire, people voted
overwhelmingly to leave and therefore to control our own
borders, spend our own money, make our own laws and
determine our own trade destiny. At this stage, how would
my right hon. Friend judge the negotiations against that
scorecard?
-
What my hon. Friend has described is the exact purpose of
the negotiations. We are seeking to retain as much as
possible of the existing European market, and at the same
time open up all the rest of the world. If I may, I will
refer back to the question asked earlier about Ford. One
of the companies that we visited in North America, on the
Canadian border, was Ford, because it is state of the art
in dealing with cross-border component traffic to support
car manufacturing. It is very good at that, and it will
be in Europe too.
-
Can the Secretary of State explain to the House how the
transitional arrangements he has negotiated for our
fishing industry will work in relation to the
renegotiation of the EU-Norway-Faroes deal on mackerel?
Can he tell the House who will lead the negotiations and
when that will happen?
-
During the implementation period, for the whole of 2019,
we will apply the agreement reached at the Fisheries
Council in December 2018, where we would be fully
involved in that agreement as a former member state. For
the 2019 negotiations, which apply to 2020, we have
agreed a process of bilateral consultation between the UK
and the EU ahead of negotiations with coastal states in
the Fisheries Council. From December 2020, we will be
negotiating fishing opportunities as an independent
coastal state.
-
In my constituency, there are three universities and tens
of thousands of students. We could remain a member of
Erasmus+ when we leave the EU. Will the Minister confirm
that we will do so?
-
The Prime Minister has set out that she believes there
are great opportunities to continue to co-operate
together on education and culture. We will of course need
to look at what the next stage of the Erasmus+ scheme
covers, but we see enormous benefits from it for students
from the UK, so it is an area in which we are likely to
seek further collaboration.
-
British Governments have repeatedly, and quite rightly,
gone to European Council meetings and come back having
persuaded their colleagues in other countries in favour
of strong sanctions against Russia and the Putin regime.
How will we be able to do that in the future when we are
no longer sitting at the table or in the room?
-
As the Prime Minister made clear in her speech in Munich,
our commitment to collaboration and partnership with our
European partners on security and defence is unwavering.
We have made it clear that we want to develop a new
framework with the EU that ensures we can continue to
work together to combat the common threats that we face.
Our position in NATO obviously remains unchanged, and
that underpins our worldwide influence in security and
defence.
-
One of the key players in discussing and settling the EU
financial settlement is the European Court of Auditors.
As a member state, we have Phil Wynn Owen as our
representative, but as it stands, he is set to leave the
European Court of Auditors come 29 March 2019. Will the
Secretary of State add to his negotiating list the need
to make sure we have a full British representative on the
European Court of Auditors during the transition period?
-
All of the implementation period issues are currently
under discussion. I am not sure, frankly, that we will
put the hon. Lady’s proposal at the top of the priority
list, but we certainly aim to cover issues such as audit
in the joint committee.
-
Can the Secretary of State name one country that has
said, “As long as you leave the customs union, we’ll give
you a much better free trade agreement than you have or
could have had?”
-
No, it is the other way around: a number of countries
have made it very plain that if we are still in the
customs union, they will not do a trade deal with us.
-
The European Union set out a very clear negotiating
position at the beginning of this exercise. The
Government are still being undermined by their inability
to make up their mind, and the Secretary of State has
told us that it is going to take a bit longer to decide
about customs. The whole negotiation is supposed to be
concluded by October. How many weeks longer will it be
before our Government have a clear position on customs?
-
The clarity of the position of not being a member of the
customs union is absolute, and has been since the
beginning, unlike the right hon. Gentleman’s party, which
has had a number of different positions on this matter.
Frankly, it is incredibly important that we get this
right—not just for trade, which is massively important,
but for the extremely sensitive issue of maintaining the
peace process in Northern Ireland—and I do not undertake
to put an artificial deadline on something so important.
-
People from the EU27 working in my constituency and
Bristol West constituents living and working in the EU27
tell me that they are worried about their pensions
post-Brexit. What are the Government doing to protect my
constituents’ pensions?
-
The citizens’ rights element of the withdrawal agreement
that we have reached in its entirety with the EU covers
the continuity of pension provisions and the accumulation
of contributions between member states. This is an issue
on which we have reached agreement, and we look forward
to being able to provide full certainty to all those
constituents.
-
The threat by the US Administration to impose steel
tariffs has been robustly resisted by the EU. How will
the UK work with its EU partners in the future to
preserve both free and fair trade in steel?
-
Our future trading relations are subject to negotiation,
as the hon. Gentleman knows, but I have no doubt that it
is in all our interests to work together on free trade
agreements, working against anti-competitive distortions
and having a fair trade defence regime. One of the
reasons why we need to leave the customs union is of
course so that we can have our own trade defence regime,
and I feel quite sure we will continue to work with our
partners and our neighbours to ensure that we take care
of these issues.
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