Asked by Lord Pearson of Rannoch To ask Her Majesty’s
Government what assessment they have made of figures from the
Office for National Statistics showing that the Muslim population
of England grew 10 times faster than the general population between
2001 and 2016; what is their estimate of future growth; and what is
their assessment of the impact of that trend on the relationship
between...Request free trial
Asked by
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To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have
made of figures from the Office for National Statistics
showing that the Muslim population of England grew 10 times
faster than the general population between 2001 and 2016;
what is their estimate of future growth; and what is their
assessment of the impact of that trend on the relationship
between Sharia and domestic law.
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The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams of
Trafford) (Con)
My Lords, the ONS is charged with the collection and
publication of statistics related to the economy,
population and society of the UK. It is independent from
government. The Government have made no assessment of the
current or future growth of the Muslim population, or that
of any other faith, in England and its impact. The
Government recently confirmed in their response to the
independent review of sharia law that sharia law has no
jurisdiction in England and Wales.
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(UKIP)
My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for that reply, but I
am afraid it is not really adequate. Good Muslims must
follow Muhammad’s example and impose sharia law on their
hosts when they are strong enough to do so.
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Noble Lords
Rubbish!
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Well, let’s talk about it. Several of our local authorities
will soon be Muslim-majority and anger is already rising
among our kufr working class at the Islamification of their
communities.
First, I again ask the Government whether they will require
all teaching in our mosques and madrassas to be in English.
Secondly, I yet again ask them to foster an open national
debate about Islam to include our Muslim friends so that we
can all understand with what we may be dealing in a few
years’ time.
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My Lords, I think your Lordships’ House would agree that
points about good Muslims and bad Muslims are not for this
House. I was just wondering whether I, in that context, was
a good Catholic or a bad Catholic, but I do not think that
sort of thing has any place in your Lordships’ House or in
society. We do not prescribe English being taught in
madrassas, but we absolutely acknowledge that English
language skills are fundamental to taking advantage of all
the opportunities of living in modern Britain—getting a
job, mixing with people and playing a full part in
community life. The Government have no plans to hold a
national debate on Islam.
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(Lab
Co-op)
My Lords, does the noble Baroness agree that this great
country of ours has always accepted immigrants of different
faiths, traditions and cultures, and that tolerance,
respecting of difference and accepting the rule of law as
determined by Parliament must always be the way we go
forward, along with standing up to Islamophobia,
anti-Semitism and any other form of hate that seeks to
divide us?
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I could not agree more wholeheartedly with the noble Lord.
He and I are of Irish descent and first-generation Irish
respectively. In fact, when we look around your Lordships’
House and this country, there would not be many of us if we
did not have immigration.
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(LD)
My Lords, is the Minister aware that domestic law in most
Muslim-majority countries is based on modern western legal
systems and that sharia is actually a moral code that
requires Muslims, among other things, to be just and fair
in their dealings with everyone and always to promote what
is good and to prevent what is wrong? Will she join me and
the overwhelming majority of this House in celebrating the
appointment today of the first British-Pakistani, born of
Muslim parents, to hold one of the great offices of state?
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I certainly agree with the first part of the noble Lord’s
question and am very pleased to be able to join him in
welcoming as our new Home
Secretary. While I have an opportunity, I also pay tribute
to my right honourable friend .
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The Lord
My Lords, does the Minister agree that a prerequisite to
any intelligent discussion of Islam or any other religion
should pay attention to the ninth commandment, which is
that you will not bear false witness against your
neighbour?
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The right reverend Prelate is right. I was just trying to
think of my 10 commandments and might have forgotten some
of them.
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(Lab)
My Lords, talking of national statistics, the Minister may
not be aware that, 100 years ago last week on St George’s
Day, the Navy carried out a huge raid on Zeebrugge and more
Victoria Crosses were won on that day than on any other in
the First World War, on which I am sure she will congratulate
the Royal Navy. In that raid, more ships were used than we
currently have in the entire Royal Navy. Does she believe
that the Home Office supports the government view that there
should be more ships in the Royal Navy?
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The noble Lord never loses an opportunity to weave something
about the Royal Navy into a question. I did not think that he
would manage it today, but he has. I am very happy to join
him in paying tribute to the Royal Navy.
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(Non-Afl)
My Lords, will the Minister launch an investigation into the
growth in the number of people named Pearson in this country
and assess what effect it is having on racial harmony?
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I get the noble Baroness’s point.
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(Con)
My Lords, the trouble with your Lordships’ treatment of the
noble Lord, Lord Pearson, is that you will not listen when he
actually talks sense. There are a number of points which he
raises which your Lordships should have the courage to
examine, rather than simply denigrate his approach to them.
One such point is the implication for democratic trends in
this society, which is equally a subject of interest, but in
a totally different context, in Northern Ireland. It is not a
subject that should be entirely brushed under the carpet
until things change.
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My Lords, I certainly was not denigrating the noble Lord’s
points, save to say that they were not helpful in the context
of anything other than singling out one particular faith in
society. I think that my noble friend meant demographic
rather than democratic. There is certainly demographic change
in this country, but it is all to the good because, if we had
purely the indigenous population, we would be looking at
population decline and therefore some major problems in
meeting employment need.
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