Asked by Lord Haskel To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps
they are taking to continue United Kingdom participation in the
Galileo space project after Brexit. The Parliamentary
Under-Secretary of State, Department for Business, Energy and
Industrial Strategy (Lord Henley) (Con)...Request free trial
Asked by
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To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps they are
taking to continue United Kingdom participation in the
Galileo space project after Brexit.
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My Lords, the United Kingdom has made clear to our
European partners our desire to continue the United
Kingdom’s involvement in EU space programmes, including
Galileo, provided that the UK and UK companies can
continue to participate on a fair and open basis. The
Government are engaging with the EU to this end.
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My Lords, the Government have threatened to withdraw
their support if we are not a fully participating member
and not trusted with all the security arrangements. Does
the Minister agree that that saying “If you do not trust
us, we will go elsewhere and we want our money back” is
an empty threat unless we have a practical alternative?
What is that alternative and does it deal with the
worrying lack of trust, which could extend to other
matters relating to security, defence and our safety?
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My Lords, given our history, I find the lack of trust
very confusing, but certainly we can look at other
options. We have made it clear in a letter that my right
honourable friend has sent to all appropriate Ministers
in the other 27 countries that we wish to continue to
participate in this programme. So far, we have only had a
letter from the Commission itself setting out its view
that we should not take part. In our view, that would be
folly of the worst sort: it would increase costs for the
whole programme by €1 billion and possibly delay it for
three years.
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My Lords, have negotiations begun on the Prime Minister’s
proposals for a security treaty with the European Union?
If they have begun or are about to begin, will they cover
the security aspects of the Galileo programme and perhaps
provide a way of avoiding what can be described only as
mutually assured damage?
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My Lords, I am not aware of whether they have begun but
certainly they would provide a way to deal with this
matter. The noble Lord is right to stress that there
would be mutually assured damage if the Commission was to
continue with its suggestion that we should not
participate in this programme.
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My Lords, as with the FSA question, is this not a case of
where Brexit bravado comes up against the brick wall of
reality? If we leave the EU and then have an associate
agreement with it of one kind or another, which the
Minister cannot define at the moment, it will be weaker
than full participation in the Galileo programme. Airbus
has already taken its Galileo project out of this country
in advance. We will be left for both security and space
reasons either seeking such agreements with the United
States or the European Union, or, we are now told, going
it alone—with a minimum cost of £5 billion. They did not
put that on the side of a bus.
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My Lords, if not anything else, it suggests the folly of
the Commission in making this suggestion. Other countries
have not said that they would not like us to participate.
That is why my right honourable friend is engaging with
other countries. There are benefits to the UK and to the
whole EU with us continuing to participate. I repeat that
if we do not participate—we are one of the lead players
in this—the extra costs of this programme would be €1
billion and it would delay what is a good programme by up
to three years.
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Following on from that question and answer, is the
Minister aware that the digital security factor involved
in this is crucial? The French are already making major
efforts across the board to take work from British
satellite and aerospace companies because we have a lead
in such manufacturing. We will lose that lead to
particularly France and Europe generally unless we can
sign up to some digital security deal. That is vital and
the Government need to say so, otherwise we will lose out
massively.
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My Lords, the noble Lord makes a perfectly good point. My
right honourable friend has made these points in his
letter to the other Ministers involved in this country.
That is why the other Ministers—certainly in my
department, and in others—have already started engaging
on this and will continue to do so. This is a proposal
from the Commission but we want to see what the other
countries feel about it as well.
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My Lords, the Minister referred to the Government
investigating co-operation with other partners. If we are
talking about other Governments with satellite
programmes, I imagine it is a choice of China, Russia,
India and the United States. Are the Government
investigating all of those as options?
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My Lords, all I said—I am not going to go much further
than this—is that we are looking at other options. I also
stress that we have the capability to do quite a lot
ourselves. I am not suggesting that we will engage with
Russia and other similar countries.
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My Lords, the Minister will be aware that we work closely
with America in this field—most of the work is so
sensitive we cannot talk about it—and that we were so far
ahead of anyone else in the world in satellite coverage
and intelligence that we used to help other countries. It
is extraordinary that Europe is now playing silly games
about the use of satellites when we have been so generous
in the past in the giving of intelligence and working
with it. It is also extraordinary, given the skills that
we have in this area, that it is not keen to keep us
fully involved.
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The noble Lord could hardly have put it better,
particularly in stressing the capabilities that we have
in this country. Only recently I visited an American
company making micro-satellites in Glasgow. It could have
invested anywhere in the world but it chose Glasgow
because it knew Glasgow has the right people with the
right skills here in the United Kingdom. We have a great
capability and I am sure other people will recognise
this.
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My Lords, just for the record, I say that we already
co-operate with the Russians in the Soyuz and space
station programme, in which Tim Peake flew and which is
highly successful. Does the Minister agree that, if we
can co-operate with the Russians despite everything,
surely we should not have too many problems with the
European Union?
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I am sure that the Commission will note my noble friend’s
point.
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