Draft Animal Welfare (Licensing of Activities Involving Animals)
(England) Regulations 2018 The Committee consisted of the
following Members: Chair: Albert Owen † Badenoch, Mrs Kemi (Saffron
Walden) (Con) † Davies, Mims (Eastleigh) (Con) † Debbonaire,
Thangam (Bristol West) (Lab) † Eustice, George (Minister for
Agriculture, Fisheries and Food) † George, Ruth (High Peak) (Lab) †
Henderson, Gordon (Sittingbourne and Sheppey) (Con) †...Request free trial
Draft Animal Welfare (Licensing of Activities Involving Animals)
(England) Regulations 2018
The Committee consisted of the following Members:
Chair:
† Badenoch, Mrs Kemi (Saffron Walden) (Con)
† Davies, Mims (Eastleigh) (Con)
† Debbonaire, Thangam (Bristol West) (Lab)
† Eustice, George (Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food)
† George, Ruth (High Peak) (Lab)
† Henderson, Gordon (Sittingbourne and Sheppey) (Con)
† Keegan, Gillian (Chichester) (Con)
† Latham, Mrs Pauline (Mid Derbyshire) (Con)
† Lynch, Holly (Halifax) (Lab)
McCarthy, Kerry (Bristol East) (Lab)
† McMorrin, Anna (Cardiff North) (Lab)
† Menzies, Mark (Fylde) (Con)
† Morris, James (Halesowen and Rowley Regis) (Con)
† Pollard, Luke (Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport) (Lab/Co-op)
† Pow, Rebecca (Taunton Deane) (Con)
Sheerman, Mr Barry (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)
† Turley, Anna (Redcar) (Lab/Co-op)
Sarah Rees, Committee Clerk
† attended the Committee
Seventh Delegated Legislation Committee
Tuesday 20 March 2018
(Afternoon)
[Albert Owen in the Chair]
Draft Animal Welfare (Licensing of Activities Involving Animals)
(England) Regulations 2018
2.30 pm
-
The Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (George
Eustice)
I beg to move,
That the Committee has considered the draft Animal Welfare
(Licensing of Activities Involving Animals) (England)
Regulations 2018.
I am pleased to open this debate on an important set of
regulations introducing an updated system of local
authority licensing of activities involving animals in
England. These regulations meet the Government’s manifesto
commitment to continuing its review and reform of the pet
licensing controls and, specifically, to updating the
licensing system for dog breeding, pet sales, riding
establishments and animal boarding establishments. They
also modernise a system for animal exhibits.
The licensing and registration system that covers these
five animal activities is outdated and complex. The
activities are regulated under a number of different pieces
of legislation: the Performing Animals (Regulation) Act
1925, the Pet Animals Act 1951, the Animal Boarding
Establishments Act 1963, the Riding Establishments Act
1964, the Breeding of Dogs Acts 1973 and 1991 and the
Breeding and Sale of Dogs (Welfare) Act 1999. They will be
repealed and replaced with new regulations that consolidate
and update the requirements set out in each of the Acts in
one consistent licensing scheme. This new licensing will
have more streamlined processes of application, inspection
and enforcement, reducing the burden on local authorities
and businesses while improving consistency of application
across the country.
One of the key issues with the licensing system is that the
animal welfare standards with which businesses are required
to comply have not been updated for many years. The
schedules to the new regulations include detailed animal
welfare standards for each activity. We have worked closely
with stakeholders from the industry, animal welfare
organisations, local authorities and veterinary bodies in
drafting these standards and we are grateful for their
support—in particular the Canine and Feline Sector Group
and the Equine Sector Council for helping to co-ordinate
this work. These new standards will ensure that anyone who
receives a licence for dog breeding, selling pets, boarding
dogs and cats, hiring out horses or keeping or training
animals for exhibit will need to meet these new minimum
welfare standards. This should help drive up animal welfare
standards across all of these sectors.
Many people and organisations have been calling for more
restrictions to be placed on the breeding and selling of
dogs in particular, where it is felt there are unscrupulous
businesses that breed dogs in poor conditions for maximum
profit. The regulations address this in a number of ways.
First, we are making changes to the definition of dog
breeding, to ensure the regulations capture both
large-scale dog breeders as well as smaller-scale dog
breeding businesses. Under the new regulations, anyone who
is in the business of breeding and selling dogs will need a
licence. In addition, breeders who are not classed as a
business will also need a licence if they breed three or
more litters a year and sell any of them. Overall, this
will ensure that more breeders are captured under the
regulations and will need to comply with the high animal
welfare requirements set out within them, while also
ensuring that we crack down on unregulated backstreet
breeding.
Secondly, it is important to acknowledge the sad fact that
many unsuspecting potential buyers are providing a
lucrative market for rogue dog breeders and animal dealers
who work illegally, outside the licensing system.
Therefore, the regulations include a number of measures
that will help consumers identify these rogue traders and
make more informed decisions when purchasing an animal.
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(High Peak) (Lab)
On that point, can the Minister confirm whether unlicensed
breeders, specifically those falling below the threshold
for licensing, will still be able to sell puppies to pet
shops and dealers if they are under eight weeks of age?
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The situation described by the hon. Lady, as I outlined,
would be captured. Under HMRC’s badges of trade, which
define what trade is, anyone breeding for the purpose of
selling to pet shops would be covered by these regulations,
even if they were breeding fewer than three litters a year.
The regulations include a number of measures that will help
consumers identify these rogue traders and make more
informed decisions when purchasing an animal. Licence
holders are required to publish their licence number on all
adverts, including online adverts, so that consumers can
check with the relevant local authority that it is a
legitimate business. All licensed businesses will also
receive a risk rating—from one to five stars—based on their
welfare standards and compliance record. That is a similar
system to the one used in food hygiene rating schemes. For
puppies, there is an additional requirement that any sale
be completed at the premises where the puppy was bred to
make sure that the purchaser sees the puppy and the
conditions in which it has been kept before making the
making the final purchase. All licensed pet sellers are
also required to provide purchasers with information about
how to care for the animal they are buying.
These measures will ensure that consumers can make more
informed decisions when buying an animal, and are better
able to care for it once they have taken it home. This is
particularly important for some of the more exotic species,
such as reptiles, which are becoming more common as pets
these days.
Many people are concerned about the increase in the online
sale of pets. Dating as it does from 1951, the current
legislation is not clear on whether these businesses
require a licence. The legal position is that they already
do, however, as a result of the lack of clarity,
enforcement is inconsistent across the country. Under the
new regulations, the issue is put beyond doubt: all
commercial sales require a licence, including those that
take place online. All these businesses will have to comply
with the minimum welfare standards set out in the
regulations. These measures will ensure that the licensing
system is consistent and fit for purpose in this modern
age.
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The Minister is outlining an excellent procedure for the
star rating and the licensing of online, as well as other,
sales, but that will require considerable enforcement and
monitoring by local authorities. What resources are being
given to local authorities to perform all these tasks?
-
Local authorities can recover the full cost of their
licensing regime through the price of the licence that they
issue. Resourcing is not a problem; they can go for full
cost recovery and the regulations provide for that.
I should point out that the licensing system is run by
local authorities and, as I said, funded by full cost
recovery—the hon. Lady got there just before I reached that
point— so there is no financial burden on local
authorities. Licences can also be issued at any point in
the calendar year, which will help to spread the workload
across the year. The maximum licence length that can be
issued is increased from the current one to three years,
with longer licences going to businesses with earned
recognition.
This earned recognition will be based on a combination of
past history of compliance and the animal welfare standards
adopted by the business. Businesses with high animal
welfare standards and high historical levels of compliance,
or those associated with a body accredited by the United
Kingdom Accreditation Service—such as the Kennel Club’s
assured breeder scheme—will be able to achieve the maximum
three-year licence, leading to less frequent inspections
and a lower fee. They will also achieve a five-star rating
to demonstrate their high quality to consumers.
The risk-based system should reduce the workload for local
authorities, allowing them to spend more time on
enforcement of unlicensed and less compliant businesses.
That will also reduce the burden on good businesses and
therefore provide an incentive for businesses to improve
welfare standards.
We recognise that the implementation of these regulations
will be crucial to their success and so local authority
inspectors will be required to undertake specific training
on licensing and inspection. That will ensure that they are
suitably qualified to undertake inspections for all the
animal activities covered by the regulations. The
regulations have been drafted in consultation with
stakeholders from industry, animal welfare organisations,
local authorities and veterinary bodies, and we are
grateful for all the assistance they have offered. The
regulations are proportionate and targeted and will help
improve animal welfare across a number of sectors. I
therefore commend them to the Committee.
2.40 pm
-
(Halifax) (Lab)
May I join the Minister in saying what a pleasure it is to
serve under your chairmanship, Mr Owen? I am grateful to
him for his opening explanation. We are in agreement that
the statutory instrument is a step in the right direction,
but we will take this opportunity to seek clarification on
certain areas and outline reservations that this is a
missed opportunity to go further in certain other
directions.
There are 2,300 licensed pet shops, 650 licensed dog
breeders, 1,800 licensed riding establishments and 6,300
licensed animal boarding establishments in England alone.
That is why guaranteeing the welfare of the animals within
the system presents such a big challenge for local
authorities. Collectively, these businesses make up the
fourth largest group of establishments requiring licences
issued by local authorities after premises, taxis and
gambling establishments. We welcome the opportunity to
update the existing legislation, which is contained
predominantly within five Acts, as the Minister said, that
date back as far as 1925. They are therefore certainly in
need of an update.
It is important to account for changes within the sector,
new and varied routes to market, updated guidance on animal
welfare and changing social attitudes but, perhaps most
importantly, it is important to clamp down on those who go
beyond poor animal welfare and seek to exploit animals for
the purposes of criminal activity and gain. With that in
mind, we are pleased to see that under the regulations
puppy sales are required to be completed in the presence of
the new owner and with the puppy shown with its mother.
That is to prevent online sales, which have increased
dramatically in recent years and have prevented the buyer
from seeing the animal first.
However, the regulations do not prevent the third-party
sale of puppies, which is a massive missed opportunity. I
heard the Minister’s comments earlier, but the Labour party
outlined the pledge in our 2017 manifesto, and we
reiterated it in our recent animal welfare plan, which has
been endorsed by the League Against Cruel Sports,
Compassion in World Farming and the World Wide Fund for
Nature. Battersea Dogs and Cats Home and the Royal Society
for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals support calls for
a ban on the third-party sale of puppies, so why stop short
of delivering on that? It would address the issues much
more comprehensively than the proposals before us today.
We also want to stress in the strongest possible terms that
with the best will in the world, the fewer numbers of staff
at cash-strapped local authorities cannot perpetually
become experts in the increasing number of fields for which
we are asking them to take responsibility. Whether it is
environmental health inspectors or licensing officers, when
I follow up on casework I am increasingly being told, “The
person who knew about that topic does not work here
anymore, and I am afraid we haven’t got anyone else.”
Minimum standards are already outlined in guidance, but the
Government’s own findings suggest that fewer than one in
three local authorities use the guidance when carrying out
inspections, and I would imagine that that is a resourcing
and time issue as much as anything else.
-
Regarding the resourcing of local authorities, obviously
they have to provide the personnel to start with. To
monitor the licensing and enforcement, they have to provide
up-front training. If they are doing the enforcement side
of it, that does not pay as well as the licences
themselves. Does my hon. Friend share my concern that if
there is a lot of enforcement, that could raise the level
of licence fees to a disproportionate level for breeders
who are prepared to pay for them?
-
My hon. Friend made a couple of key points there. I will
come on to talk in detail about the issues she raised, and
I hope we will hear the Minister respond to those points,
which she made powerfully.
Thinking about resourcing, how do the Government propose to
overcome some of the challenges through the new
regulations? The impact assessment admits that local
authorities may struggle to deliver the new
regulations—that was my hon. Friend’s concern—that will be
brought into force by 1 October this year. The impact
assessment accepts that under this Government, authorities
are
“unlikely to acquire additional resource”.
Instead it suggests that to meet demand, authorities may
have to reprioritise existing activities. Will the Minister
be clear about what local authorities should reprioritise?
Is it licences for selling alcohol, taxis, gambling, houses
in multiple occupation or tattoo parlours? We all
appreciate that that is incredibly important work.
To get down to the detail, the impact assessment assumes a
one-off familiarisation cost of two hours’ work per local
authority. That is one hour for a staff member to
understand the new guidance and a further hour to
disseminate that information to other staff members, with a
combined national cost to 356 local authorities of just
under £11,500. I can only take from that information that
one licensing officer will get the training and then is
expected to educate the other members of the team. However,
the impact assessment specifically says “disseminate” the
information. The impact assessment accounts for two hours
for one person, which does not allocate a time or cost for
the rest of the team to even read the information
disseminated, or take part in any internal training, during
working hours. With that in mind I will give the Government
the benefit of the doubt, and suggest that this impact
assessment is just lazy, and provides an inadequate
assessment of what the cost would be to get this right in
the way that I am sure the Minister intended—because the
alternative is that it exposes a fundamental lack of
commitment to the training that will be intrinsic to
delivering the regulations, and improving animal welfare. I
am sure that that is not the case.
We are also keen to better understand how breaches of
licence conditions will be penalised—which comes back to
the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for High
Peak—and what the consequences would be for those seeking
to obstruct a licensing officer. Three years is a
significant period of time for those establishments that
have a good inspection and are rewarded with a lengthy
inspection-free period, based on the assessment of risk.
However, if a member of the public or an employee, for
example, raised concerns with the local authority that
changes had occurred and animal welfare had declined in
that period, would that mean that further inspections could
be brought forward, as we hope would be the case? I would
be grateful if the Minister can confirm that today.
We would also like to put on record our regret that the
threshold for these new regulations is three litters per
annum, which is still an intensive breeding regime for a
dog. Why did the Minister draw the line at three litters
and not reduce the number to two per year, or even one, as
called for by organisations such as the Dogs Trust?
We firmly believe that these measures are a step in the
right direction, but I hope that the Minister will offer us
some clarity on the issues that I have raised. In
particular, can he revisit the training element of these
new regulations, as that will be absolutely key if the
measures are to be effective? I would be grateful for his
assurances that the impact assessment will be reconsidered
and that the training will be delivered properly.
2.47 pm
-
(Redcar)
(Lab/Co-op)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Owen.
I am sure that all Members here share my desire to see the
highest possible standards of animal welfare in the UK.
Indeed, as a dog owner myself, and someone who has pushed
recently for changes in legislation on animal cruelty, this
policy area is close to my heart, and I am glad of the
opportunity to speak briefly on this topic today.
Every week, I receive letters and emails from constituents
concerned about the welfare of animals. We are a country of
animal lovers and the strength of feeling on this issue is
huge. When cases of the mistreatment or abuse of
defenceless animals come to light, they are emotive and
shocking, and people are right to ask what can be done to
prevent similar cases occurring in the future. These cases
remind us that Parliament has a key role in keeping animals
safe in England, and that will be true regardless of the
outcomes of negotiations on leaving the European Union.
We must stay one step ahead of these abusive practices by
looking at ways that we can raise standards. There is no
room for complacency, and where there is evidence of
wrongdoing occurring within the system, and there is scope
to tighten legislation, then it must be addressed. Our
understanding of the behaviour and needs of animals is
constantly changing too, and it is good to see this
instrument attempt to update regulations to reflect that.
It shows that we must always have this issue on our minds,
and we can always do better. I am pleased to see that this
instrument has been brought forward after a successful
public consultation and has taken into account quality,
evidence-based submissions on how the current licensing
arrangements can be improved. We have some of the best
animal welfare charities in the world, and I am very proud
of the work that Dogs Trust, the RSPCA, Battersea Dogs and
Cats Home, and others have done to feed into this work.
I am satisfied that there are a number of sensible and
timely reforms to the system within this instrument, and
many measures that are non-controversial, and ought to be
non-partisan. There are however some concerns. This
instrument brings welcome new standards of good practice
and addresses concerns around problem areas. I will wait to
see the results before cheerleading, but it is welcome that
the Government have made specific reference to the rise of
online sales of pets, where there is a danger, as with all
online activity, that regulation cannot keep up with
fast-moving trends. There has been much work by animal
welfare organisations and others through the Pet
Advertising Advisory Group to improve the standards of
animals advertised for sale via online websites. It is a
positive step forward that this instrument will now
enshrine that work in law, making it applicable to all
licensed individuals wishing to sell their pets in this
way, regardless of the platform that they use.
I would like to highlight a point mentioned by my hon.
Friends for Halifax and for High Peak, which is that these
regulations must not lead to overworked local authorities.
The impact on public confidence in the licensing process
and on the ability to deliver licensing will be severe. The
current application process for licensing puts pressure on
businesses and local authorities by limiting licences to a
calendar-year framework. Therefore the introduction of
licences issued for a fixed term, set at any point in the
year, is an eminently sensible measure that will prevent a
backlog of inspections and paperwork at the end of the
year. Local authorities are already under strained
financial pressure to deliver services as it is, and
working to ease this pressure is an important part of
making the system work.
I believe that the inclusion of an earned recognition
principle into the licensing system is a good step to
incentivising good behaviour, and can potentially alleviate
burdens on local authority time. However, we must be
careful that this is a measure to drive up standards, and
is not used to circumvent proper inspections when local
authorities are under particularly difficult time and
financial constraints.
I will support this instrument, but I want to finish by
asking the Government questions, some of which I know my
hon. Friend for Halifax has mentioned before. How can we be
sure that local authorities are sufficiently ready for the
implementation of these regulations before the 1 October
deadline? What steps will the Government take to support
local authorities struggling with the implementation? Has
there been any consideration of setting up a national unit
of inspectors that could alleviate the burden on local
authorities, and also help to provide much-needed animal
welfare standards expertise for inspections?
2.51 pm
-
I am grateful for the supportive comments from both hon.
Ladies who have made a contribution to the general approach
we are taking. They have raised some specific issues that I
will try to address.
The shadow Minister raised the point of third party sales.
I hope that she is aware that on 8 February 2018 we issued
a call for evidence on this matter. It has been discussed a
little bit in the last few years as we have progressed
these issues. The general view that we have taken is that
if we can tighten up on internet sales and make it clear
that people selling online are registered pet shops and pet
dealers and therefore require a licence, it will go some
way to addressing these challenges, but we are aware that a
number of organisations have made and continue to make
representations on third party sales, and that is why we
have a call for evidence out on this at the moment. We will
have many representations on that so we are addressing and
dealing with that point through that approach.
The hon. Member for Halifax also mentioned resourcing. As I
explained at the start, local authorities can recover the
cost of both the enforcement and the licensing regime
through the cost of the licence that they issue. We are now
working closely with local authorities to put together
guidance to help to inform people of the length and scale
of the charges that would probably be imposed for licences
of different lengths, and they will be able to recover all
of their costs through the licence cost.
-
(Cardiff North)
(Lab)
Does the Minister agree that deciding to set the licensing
threshold for dog-breeders at one or two litters would
bring more breeders onto the radar in terms of licensing?
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If it is okay with the hon. Lady, I will return to the
issue of the threshold set on the number of puppies. Even
as a backbencher from 2011, I looked closely at this issue
over a number of years, and I think we have arrived at the
right place, but I will return to that.
I will say a little bit more about resourcing. As the hon.
Member for Redcar correctly pointed out, by making sure
that the licence can start in any month of the year—so it
is a 12-month licence, not a calendar year licence—we
spread the workload for local authorities. With the ability
to have earned recognition for the best performing
establishments of up to three years, we will also therefore
reduce the workload in that regard. The combination of the
ability to recover the cost of the licence—the regulation
provides for that—and the evening out of the workload will
help local authorities.
The shadow Minister raised the point about the consistency
of application. We recognise that this has been a bit
patchy in the past. It varies from local authority to local
authority. That is why we will address that by requiring,
for the first time, training of those carrying out the
licensing. That will address that particular concern.
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I am grateful for the opportunity to make an intervention.
Returning to the impact assessment, that training is for
just one member of staff. While there is a responsibility
on that member of staff to then disseminate information
within the team, there is no accounting of time or cost for
people to be involved in that training, to listen to and
digest it, and to be informed when they are then going
about their business. Is that an error within the impact
assessment or is that intentional?
-
I was going to move on to that. The hon. Lady raises the
issue of familiarisation. These regulations consolidate a
number of other existing licensing regimes. So it is not as
though we are starting from scratch. All local authorities
will have people who have some familiarity with the
existing regulations. We are changing, improving and
consolidating it, but the starting point is that they are
familiar with the regulations that exist today. The second
point is that when I was handling this part of the
portfolio—it is now with my noble Friend —in 2015, we were
actively engaged in discussing this issue with local
authorities and we have been ever since. To get to the
stage we are at today there has been an enormous amount of
dialogue with local authorities on these regulations and
the approach we are taking. It is an approach that they
have supported and, in effect, co-designed with us.
-
Local authorities are already under enormous pressure
enforcing the existing regulations. In my area of High
Peak, we have not seen a single prosecution for raptor
death in the last year and raptors have been reduced from
15 pairs down to one. This is going on, but the law is not
being enforced, because enforcement and prosecution in
particular take up a vast amount of time and resources that
local authorities simply do not have.
-
The hon. Lady is taking us into a slightly different area,
which is wildlife crime and persecution of raptors, but she
will be aware that we have the national wildlife crime
unit, which also addresses this particular issue. It is a
challenge. However, as I have said a number of times, local
authorities can recover the costs of running this licensing
regime and the regulations have provided for that.
The shadow Minister raised an important point, particularly
given that there could be a longer licence, what are the
remedies if there is a breach of the licence? That is an
important point because, somewhat astonishingly, the
existing regulations—with the exception of the Performing
Animals (Regulation) Act 1925—have no provision at all to
revoke the licence. It is an annual licence and the remedy
effectively was that it would not be renewed if there was a
breach. We do not think that is sufficient or acceptable.
In a new addition we have brought in, these regulations
enable local authorities to revoke and suspend licences
where a breach has occurred. The establishments affected
will have the ability to appeal, if they wish, to a
first-tier tribunal, so we would make provision for an
appeals process. This is the first time that local
authorities will have the power to revoke or suspend
licences. That is new. It gives us the confidence to grant
those longer-term licences where operators have
demonstrated a high degree of compliance and a commitment
to high-level animal welfare.
-
May I just query, in those circumstances where a licence is
revoked, for example for a dog breeder, what would happen
to the animals within their care?
-
In a situation such as that, the animal welfare officers at
local authorities already have the power to intervene, to
take those animals away and find a way to re-home them,
probably with rescue charities, other breeders or other
establishments that retain a licence. They have the powers
to facilitate that already. On the issue of the threshold
of the number of puppies, as I said earlier, I looked at
this in depth as a Back Bencher and it might be worth
dwelling briefly on the history. Until, I think, 1999, if
someone bred more than two litters—that is, three litters
or more, the same as we are proposing now—they required a
licence. As a result of a debate that took place in the
House of Commons regarding concerns over commercial,
large-scale puppy farms, a direction was given that
resources should be focused on large-scale puppy farms
rather than smaller breeders.
As a result, a Home Office circular was sent out, in effect
giving guidance to local authorities that they should
follow a threshold of five litters or more. I am not going
to make a political point; that took place under the last
Labour Government, but it was done with good intentions, to
try to target resources where the greatest concern lay, as
Parliament saw it in those days, which was large-scale
puppy farms.
What we have subsequently found, particularly in the last
decade, is a worrying growth in what I would term
backstreet breeders, particularly people breeding status
dogs. Those are people who are not really fit to raise dogs
or to look after puppies. To make it worse, they often
raise them, and try to train them, to be aggressive. There
has been a worrying trend of status dogs, which started in
around 2005 and has run for the last decade. The change we
are making will capture those people again, by effectively
reinstating the position as it was until 1999.
There is always an argument that we could go further, but
we can review this. The regulations will be reviewed every
five years, and if the feeling of the House at that time is
that there is a reason to change the threshold again—maybe
putting it up or down; it tends to move quite often—there
will be an opportunity to do so at that point. Having
looked at this, to put the position back as it was and to
put it back in line with legislation introduced by the
Welsh Government, which also has a threshold of three
litters or more, is right.
The final thing I would say is that, notwithstanding the
second criterion of three litters or more as a threshold,
if somebody were breeding fewer than that but were doing so
commercially and regularly selling those puppies, they
would still be captured by the need to have a licence under
the badges of trade criterion, which is included in the
legislation.
-
Has a minimum staff-to-dog ratio for breeders been put into
any of this legislation?
-
It would test my skills to find the correct location. I am
not sure that there is a specific staff-to-dog ratio, but
if the hon. Lady looks in the schedules of the statutory
instrument, she will see that when it comes to both pet
shop and dog breeding establishments there are detailed
statutory codes that people must follow. It sets out things
about the amount of social contact there must be with dogs,
the feeding regime, the availability of water and bedding,
and socialisation of the dogs. That is all set out in some
detail through the new statutory code that we have worked
up with the industry.
-
I thank the Minister for giving way again. I will just
state that in the Welsh Government’s legislation, there is
a minimum staff-to-dog ratio of 1:20. I see he has a piece
of paper.
-
My officials have very helpfully helped me out. The
specific issue of a ratio is not in the regulations. Lots
of other things are, and I commend them to hon. Members,
because we have worked them up with the industry. The ratio
of staff to dogs will be contained in and addressed through
the guidance that goes to local authorities alongside the
regulations.
I will briefly conclude by addressing some of the points
raised by the hon. Member for Redcar; I know she has
introduced legislation, through a private Member’s Bill, to
address some of these issues. I welcome what she said about
earned recognition, which was something I was always keen
to support because we know there has been quite patchy
application of the regulations by local authorities. My
view was always that if we had a way of recognising those
who are signed up to UKAS-accredited schemes or who
demonstrate strong compliance, it frees up the time of
local authorities to target the people we really want to
hit—those who are trying to avoid or evade the licensing
regime, and about whom we have concerns.
The hon. Lady asked whether local authorities are ready for
this. The commencement date is 1 October. I believe they
are ready, because, as I said earlier, we have been talking
about this for quite some time. We first started engaging
with local authorities on the emerging regulations in 2015
and they have been involved in their co-design. They will
welcome the changes, because they will enable them to issue
longer licences and to spread their workload across the
year. They are ready for it and they have had lots of time
to prepare. We will also issue guidance and work with them
over the next six months to ensure that they are ready.
Finally, the hon. Lady asked whether there should be a
national unit dedicated to enforcement. We looked at that,
but we concluded that it would be the wrong way to go.
Licensing regimes have traditionally been run by local
authorities. We want to improve the way they are run and
the consistency of enforcement, which is why we will have
training. We want to enable them to take a risk-based
approach to their licensing regime. We want them to be able
to recover their costs so that they can do the job
effectively. It is right, however, that local authorities,
with local people on the ground, run this kind of licensing
regime.
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rose—
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The Chair
You have missed the opportunity, unless the Minister is
feeling over-generous and has not quite finished. Does he
wish to take an intervention?
-
I will, out of kindness, given that the issue is dear to my
heart.
-
I am grateful to the Minister for taking a final
intervention. Could he clarify how the public will be able
to validate a seller’s licence? Will there be a publicly
accessible list of all licensed breeders and sellers?
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The Chair
I call the Minister to respond and conclude.
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There will not be a publicly available list as such, but,
as I said, those who are selling animals will be required
to display their licence number on their websites. Our view
is that it should be a risk-based approach. If someone has
concerns about the validity of a particular licence and
believes that fraudulent behaviour is happening, they
should be able to raise that with their local authority.
I was always supportive of requiring licence numbers to be
stated on websites and on online adverts because it gives
local authorities an easy surveillance tool to check
whether people who claim to be in Sheffield and to have a
licence in Sheffield actually have such a licence. It is an
easy way for people to self-volunteer, and it makes
enforcement by local authorities very easy. On that final
point, we have had a constructive and useful debate, and I
commend these regulations to the Committee.
Question put and agreed to.
Resolved,
That the Committee has considered the draft Animal Welfare
(Licensing of Activities involving Animals) (England)
Regulations 2018.
3.07 pm
Committee rose.
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