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The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams of
Trafford) (Con)
My Lords, this Government abhor all forms of hate speech. It
is clear that what is illegal offline is also illegal online.
That is why we are taking a cross-government approach through
the hate crime action plan, which will be refreshed this
year. We are funding an online hate crime hub, building
digital resilience and have successfully worked with industry
and partners internationally to agree the removal of illegal
content within 24 hours.
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The Lord
My Lords, we know that websites and apps have brought many
benefits, but at a cost. From my own visits to schools, I am
particularly concerned about the hate speech that young
people are exposed to online, including through anonymous
apps like Sarahah. What are the Government doing to ensure
that the age verification checks on apps are effective? How
are the Government working with smaller developers to ensure
that their platforms are not used to propagate threats and
hate speech?
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The right reverend Prelate raises a very important issue in
the online space for children and young people, because we
know that they spend a significant amount of time online. The
Government are working extensively with platforms on matters
such as age verification, and on things like bullying and
trolling online that young people are exposed to that can
blight their lives.
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(UKIP)
My Lords—
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(LD)
My Lords, on the basis that the House cannot get enough of
the European Union at the moment, I ask whether the Minister
has seen the Reuters article dated 19 January entitled
“Social media companies Facebook, Twitter, Google’s YouTube
have accelerated removals of online hate speech in the face
of a potential European Union crackdown”. Does she agree that
pressure brought to bear on social media companies by the 28
countries of the European Union is likely to be far more
effective than the UK dealing with these companies alone?
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I hope I can assure the noble Lord that in fact the UK does
not come from a position of thinking that it can deal with
these things alone. It is not just a European problem; it is
a global problem. On the European point, one of key aims of
the EU code of conduct on countering illegal hate speech
online is to increase the proportion of illegal hate speech
online that is reported within 24 hours. We fully support
that.
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(Lab
Co-op)
When did the noble Baroness last speak to the internet
providers and other companies on these matters, to have this
disgusting material removed from their sites? As the right
reverend Prelate said, small developers are a particular
concern. Does she believe that all companies do everything
possible to get this material down?
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I had the opportunity to speak to internet providers at the
G6 when we were discussing this very issue. Both the UK and
France were strong on pushing for illegal content to be taken
down within 24 hours. I have had other opportunities to speak
to internet platforms on the same thing. I agree with the
noble Lord that some of the smaller companies maybe do not
have the technologies, but they should partner with some of
the large companies. Yes, I have spoken on several occasions
to them.
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I—
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(Con)
Does my noble friend agree with me that all Members of this
House should be working to eradicate all forms of hate
speech? I note that the noble Lord, Lord Pearson, is
desperate to get into this question. Maybe if he has the
opportunity to do so, he would explain whether he thinks it
appropriate for Members to host the likes of Tommy Robinson
within the precincts of this House at a time when there is an
increased risk in relation to hate crime and Members of the
other House have been receiving hate letters.
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I could not agree more with my noble friend that this is not
just a governmental or societal issue. As legislators for
this country, we have a strong leadership role to take, and
it dismays me when I see certain quite extreme people invited
into the Palace of Westminster to propagate their hate.
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(Lab)
My Lords—
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My Lords, I have been mentioned. I shall stick to the
Question. Does hate speech include criticising Islam or any
of the world’s great religions as opposed to insulting their
adherents? Does our legislation make that distinction and, if
not, should it not do so?
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There is a clear distinction. Expressing one’s own opinion
can offend people; there is a right to offend. However, there
is no right to propagate speech that goes to a particular
characteristic, whether that be race, religion, disability or
sexuality, and promotes hatred against that person.
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(Lab)
My Lords, will the Government consider introducing an
education programme for this House so that we can address
some of the bigotry that we regularly hear here?
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I am rather depressed to say to the noble Lord that it is not
just here that we hear what I would call religious
illiteracy, sometimes going into the area of downright
misleading comments; it is within our legislature, the media
and online. Through all strands of society, we need to tackle
this.
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(Lab)
My Lords, following on from the question on education, will
the Minister accept that this will not be resolved merely by
technical control of platforms? That may be necessary, but it
is not sufficient. Can she assure the House that among the
things taught at primary schools and upwards is the stark
fact that, in the chequered history of this country, the most
glorious hours were spent and the greatest sacrifices made in
defeating an ideology that at its core had racial, homophobic
and political hatred, and that you abandon the history of
this country in its greatest hours by indulging in any of
those? Our young people should know that.
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The noble Lord makes an extremely good point. We need to be
clear about opinions and the right to free speech. This
country fought long and lost many lives in that very battle
against religious and racial hatred.
