Extract from Wales Assembly: Questions to the First Minister - May 22
Caroline Jones AM (Commissioner and Leader of the UKIP Wales
Group): Diolch, Llywydd. First Minister, last week, the Police
and Crime Commissioner for North Wales was appointed to the
national criminal justice board and has vowed to fight to have
policing devolved to Wales, saying that the time was right and that
the policy was supported by all Police and Crime
Commissioners in Wales. Do...Request free trial
Caroline Jones AM
(Commissioner and Leader of the UKIP Wales
Group): Diolch, Llywydd. First
Minister, last week, the Police and Crime
Commissioner for North Wales was appointed to the
national criminal justice board and has vowed to fight to
have policing devolved to Wales, saying that the time was
right and that the policy was supported by
all Police and Crime Commissioners in
Wales. Do you support this stance taken by your
two Police and Crime Commissioners? And
what sort of timescale would you envisage to have
policing devolved to Wales? Do the actions of Labour's
PCCs undermine your Commission on Justice in Wales?
Carwyn Jones AM (First
Minister of Wales): Well, first of all,
could I welcome her to her new role as leader of UKIP?
Caroline Jones
AM: Thank you.
Carwyn Jones
AM: It is true to
say that all four Police and Crime Commissioners, both
Labour and Plaid Cymru, are in favour of the devolution
of policing, and that is something that I have supported
for many, many years. Of course, this will form an
important part of what the Thomas commission has to
look at. I believe it's always been the case that it
makes little sense for policing not to be devolved when
every other emergency service is.
[Interruption.] This comes as news to Plaid
Cymru. They should read the news over the past few years,
shouldn't they? They will then find out. But it is
the case—[Interruption.]
Carwyn Jones
AM: It's unbelievable, isn't it? We
get accused of shouting and then we've
got—[Inaudible.]—in the Chamber. There we are. I
don't mind a bit of life in the Chamber; that's something
that adds to its character. But the answer is 'yes'. I do
support the devolution of policing, and I know all
four Police and Crime
Commissioners do.
Caroline Jones
AM: Thank you for your answer,
First Minister. Since their creation, the Police and Crime Commissioners' budget
has skyrocketed. The Labour PCC for south Wales indeed
has a budget of £1.3 million and 28 staff, plus a deputy
commissioner. So, this has meant an increase of 40 per
cent in the budget and double the amount of staff, yet,
in the last three years, there has been a 33 per cent
increase in violent crime in South Wales Police force.
So, should you get your wish and policing is devolved,
will the Welsh Government abolish the role
of Police and Crime Commissioners, which
divert resources away from front-line policing?
Carwyn Jones
AM: Well, it's right to say that, if
policing was devolved, it would be a matter then for this
place to decide whether or not to keep Police and Crime Commissioners. That
is a judgment that would have to be taken when—rather
than if, I trust—policing is devolved.
Caroline Jones
AM: Thank you. The role of the
police and crime commissioner was meant to bring local
accountability to the police service, however the
majority of the Welsh public appear to be disengaged at
the polling booths, and the figures are barely in double
figures when people vote for Police and Crime Commissioners. There
are elections in less than two years, so what can be done
to increase participation and engagement with PCCs in
Wales? And do you think that the role should be
overhauled to remove party politics and give more of a
voice to community leaders rather than politicians?
Carwyn Jones
AM: Well, these are matters for the
UK Government, given the fact that PCCs are not devolved—
Caroline Jones
AM: Yes, they will be, but if it
was devolved.
Carwyn Jones
AM: —so, it's a matter for them
to examine how best to increase turnout for Police and Crime
Commissioners and the elections that are held
for those positions. But my position is very clear: I
think it should be for this Assembly—Parliament as it
soon will be, I trust—to take the decision as to what
sort of structure should exist in terms of the oversight
of the police.
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